Libyan Fighter Pilots Defect - Malta

[Glockd]

Photo shows a Mirage F-1 from Libya on the runway at Malta after pilots defected.

http://www.foxnews.com/images/root_images/022111_LibyaJet2_20110221_142342.jpg

[Brihard]

They're claiming they defected after receiving orders to attack protesters. Not sure how true that is, but time will tell. Maybe they're just rats leaving a sinking ship.

[Glockd]

The pod on the wings appears to be a rocket pack for ground attack missions, like our Zuni. It is a perfect load for mass casualty production on a city street from an attacking fighter. Basically a strafing run with explosives versus bullets. If my eyes are not deceiving me, and the fighters were armed thusly, it does lend credence to their claims.

[Glenn 50]

Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi has ordered the Libyan air force to fire on military installations in Libya, according to what the BBC has characterized as a reliable source. Al Jazeera has suggested that air force fighters have opened fire on crowds of protesters.


Though the latter would be particularly draconian, the more important question is whether these signs reflect a split within the regime and Gadhafi using military force to crush opposition to his regime emerging from the military or other security forces. Similar reports the Libyan navy firing on targets onshore also are emerging, as well as reports that Gadhafi has given execution orders to soldiers who have refused to fire on Libyan protesters
http://www.stratfor.com/analysis/20110220-unrest-libyan-military?utm_source=redalert&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=110221%282%29&utm_content=readmore&elq=8a6978467d2d4d3c95efe6a20179835e

[Brihard]

Here's a consideration that I don't much like... Any military unit or personnel morally bankrupt enough to fire on civilians in these kinds of circumstances probably WILL fight pretty much to the bitter end. With that line crossed, their survival is basically contingent on the perpetuation of Ghaddafi's regime, or on the military itself taking power.

[Samen]

300 DIE AFTER GADAFFI'S 'MERCENARIES' OPEN FIRE WITH ANTI-AIRCRAFT GUNS

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/230284/300-die-after-Gadaffi-s-mercenaries-open-fire-with-anti-aircraft-guns

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Reports saying Gadaffi is bringing im mercenaries from Africa.

Edit: sorry for the caps, in the headline.

[Kassy]

Edit: sorry for the caps, in the headline.

Don't you have to edit the headline anyway? Might as well kill the caps. ;)

[Kassy]

Here's a consideration that I don't much like... Any military unit or personnel morally bankrupt enough to fire on civilians in these kinds of circumstances probably WILL fight pretty much to the bitter end. With that line crossed, their survival is basically contingent on the perpetuation of Ghaddafi's regime, or on the military itself taking power.

Well it's not a novelty in history.

The difference is the structure. I think Mubaraks hold on Egypts army wasn't quite as strong as Khadaffi's control over his army (and secret service). Egypt had a faction which wasn't too happy with Mubaraks son and a possible dynasty if only because he was a banker with no ties to the military establishment. Libya never even had the veneer of democracy.

I noticed i don't know much about the make up of the population. There seem to be big difference between regions with a bunch of tribes in there too. The core of his military support could come from one dominant group?

[Glockd]

The Mirage F1 is capable of carrying air-to-air missiles on the wingtips, and from experience, I can tell you that every ground attack mission we send up includes at least a pair of Sidewinders in the ordinance load for self defense, just in case. These aircraft, clearly armed, lack the A2A ordinance, meaning the mission planners did not feel the need for this. After the defection, Ill bet that changes. "If your wingman fails to follow orders, shoot him down." The F1 is also armed with a cannon. I foresee some dogfights over Libya if this continues.

[Brihard]

The Mirage F1 is capable of carrying air-to-air missiles on the wingtips, and from experience, I can tell you that every ground attack mission we send up includes at least a pair of Sidewinders in the ordinance load for self defense, just in case. These aircraft, clearly armed, lack the A2A ordinance, meaning the mission planners did not feel the need for this. After the defection, Ill bet that changes. "If your wingman fails to follow orders, shoot him down." The F1 is also armed with a cannon. I foresee some dogfights over Libya if this continues.

If it's found that Libyan air force aircraft are engaging protests, I'd hope to see the Libyan air force declared 'fair game' for any intervening force who chose unilaterally to take an interest. I would consider such an imposition on Libyan sovereignty justifiable under present circumstances. Foreign troops may end up being necessary and appropriate if Qaddafi (Sp?) decides to fight this one out.

[Glockd]

Yeah Bri, but the thought of a British Typhoon engaging a Libyan Mirage and an Italian Tornado frighten the shit out of me.

[Brihard]

Yeah Bri, but the thought of a British Typhoon engaging a Libyan Mirage and an Italian Tornado frighten the shit out of me.

If the Italians are stupid enough to back the Libyan government with force in this one they'll be pariahs.

[Glockd]

Yep, no doubt. I just cannot believe that "we" (NATO) have not declared a "No Fly" Zone over Libya.

[Samen]

Twiter is saying pilots are "defecting" to Benghazi, a town soposedly not under the command of Gadafi. Are they coming in pairs, then 4, 6 or more have landed there.

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Two more Libyan pilots have landed in Benghazi, say they refused to bomb protesters

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/t/two-more-libyan-pilots-ha_39832229437906944.html

[Glockd]

If true, the opposition seems to be building up an Air Force. If the Navy is shelling civilians, but the AF is refusing to do so, how long before the two sides clash openly?