Going solar

[shalym]

Ok...in the course of doing some research for one of my clients, I found some interesting data, and will probably be converting my house to use solar (PV) over the next year. What I found is that the system will pretty much pay for itself over the course of the first 3 years.

What really pushed it over the edge for me was the fact that in CT, you don't have to pay property taxes on any value added to your house by the solar. (Which can be significant--a couple of studies have said that for each dollar saved annually, it will raise your home value by $20)

My electric bill averaged $240/month last year, and with the increases lately, will probably average $275/month this year. (my electric bill has almost tripled in the last 2 years, so I may be too conservative with this figure)

With the change in federal law removing the cap on the solar tax credit, I'll get a $4,500 tax credit--this means that I probably won't have to pay income tax, at least this year. For the owner of a small business, that's a big deal :)

http://www.cheetahpower.net/SolarWorksheet.bmp

There are also low interest loans that you can get from local and federal government to pay the up-front costs. (I would just use money I have set aside, and not go into debt, but I realize that others don't have this option)

So...am I missing something? Why aren't more people doing this? I need some advice here...is this a bad decision?

Shari

[Sonny]

Shari you did not mention the State rebate for PV. The example for CT at this link was $18,000. http://www.solarpowerrocks.com/connecticut/

What size is the $15,000 system you're considering?

[Explorer]

As long as you don't try to do any heating (incandescent lights, cloths dryer, water heater, cooking stove, dishwasher and the like) it can be feasible.

It would be good to do an energy study so you know how much each device you plan to power uses.

[BirdGuano]

As long as you don't try to do any heating (incandescent lights, cloths dryer, water heater, cooking stove, dishwasher and the like) it can be feasible.

It would be good to do an energy study so you know how much each device you plan to power uses.

Not as much of an issue if you have a grid-tied system, and
the goal is to lower your electricity bill.

Much more of an issue if you have stand-alone solar and have to watch every kwh because you don't have the grid
as a backup.

I have a grid-tie system with battery backup, and my primary purpose was to lower the monthly utility bill for which I received a MUCH faster payback.

[shalym]

Shari you did not mention the State rebate for PV. The example for CT at this link was $18,000. http://www.solarpowerrocks.com/connecticut/

I actually was figuring that in--just didn't have it in there. Unfortunately, when I followed your link and went from there to another state website for CT, I found out that the rebate program is out of money.

http://www.ctcleanenergy.com/default.aspx?tabid=68

So...the figuring I did isn't valid anymore. Looking at it now, it would be almost 7 years before it paid for itself. Oh well...I may still do it...It will just take more thinking.

Connecticut is still funding the lease program, but I don't think I want to do that--If I'm going to have to make monthly payments, I may as well take out a loan so that I own it when I'm done.

Shari

[Mountain Man]

If you go all solar,don't you need mucho batteries,inverters to run 120 volt appliances.And no way to run 220 volt big appliancies like heat pumps,electric water heaters etc?? Or am I wrong about all this.

[shalym]

If you go all solar,don't you need mucho batteries,inverters to run 120 volt appliances.And no way to run 220 volt big appliancies like heat pumps,electric water heaters etc?? Or am I wrong about all this.
Not if you do a system that's tied into the grid--that's what I was looking at.

Shari

[Explorer]

According to your worksheet it appears you plan to save the entire grid electric bill when, and if, the solar is added. How is this possible if you remain tied to the grid?

[shalym]

According to your worksheet it appears you plan to save the entire grid electric bill when, and if, the solar is added. How is this possible if you remain tied to the grid?Through the wonders of "Net Metering" The Meter will actually run backwards during the day, and forward at night, or on cloudy days when the load is more than the system will handle. If you figure it right, the power company will sometimes end up owing you money at the end of the month. Different states/companies handle the credits differently, but I would be happy just not having to pay an electric bill. I'm still debating whether it will be better to have a battery backup in case of power failure, or whether I should keep my generator.

Shari

[Teal]

Some suggestions from a solar owner:

Spend more and get more if you can make the numbers come out after using all amounts available. That really isn't a very big system.
Be sure the system you're on supports net metering. Co-ops and the like are excluded from the law.
You can have electric heat, stove, etc, if you're hooked to the grid. Sometimes replacing all these things pushes to total cost to convert to solar too high. Your dishwasher needs to be electric, everything else is best gas. A ordinary refrigerator is an almost impossible drain on stand-alone solar. If you want to work toward that goal, one day you'll need to buy a special fridge.
If the grid is down and it's overcast, you have nothing with only panels and no batteries. It's illegal not to have an automatic disconnect if you use a battery storage system, you could kill a worker who comes to your pole during an outage. One thing you can do is to leave them unhooked so you don't have to pay for an auto disconnect to the grid. Keep them charged by occasionally plugging them to a wall wart. Be absolutely sure you know how to manually disconnect from the grid if you play this game: Grid OFF before batteries on. Better yet, just get the auto-disconnect and some AGM batteries.
I would keep your genny as a backup for a situation where you need to charge your backup batteries because it's too overcast for the panels to do the charging, or other emergencies. Used ones don't get much, so it isn't worth it to get rid of it.

Most important: You must have true solar south placement for your panels, with no shading.

[BirdGuano]

If you go all solar,don't you need mucho batteries,inverters to run 120 volt appliances.And no way to run 220 volt big appliancies like heat pumps,electric water heaters etc?? Or am I wrong about all this.

You are wrong about all of this....:D

[BirdGuano]

I'm still debating whether it will be better to have a battery backup in case of power failure, or whether I should keep my generator.


I have both.

Battery backup to handle small loads and the generator to both recharge the battery bank, and for larger loads when/if the solar isn't enough to charge the batteries and the grid is down.

Battery backup adds more cost and complexity to a grid-tied system however.

[Teal]

If you go all solar,don't you need mucho batteries,inverters to run 120 volt appliances.And no way to run 220 volt big appliancies like heat pumps,electric water heaters etc?? Or am I wrong about all this.

:D @BG.

Yes, you need an inverter. No big deal. At least you need one for everything but a 12V bugout house. :) If you go with a 12V minimalist system, you use a charge controller instead of an inverter.

If you go ALL solar and want to live normally, you need a big battery bank, but she's talking about doing a grid-tied system. Different animal altogether.

You can do 220 with the right system, but it's not really reasonable. To run heat pumps, electric HWH, etc, you'd need a giant system. That isn't how it's usually done. Stand-alone solar, done for a reasonable cost, ideally requires a commitment to a somewhat energy saving lifestyle (unless you're filthy rich, of course). Use of propane or natural gas (or other fuels or combinations) is best for things like heating, HWH, and cooking.

[BirdGuano]

If you go ALL solar and want to live normally, you need a big battery bank, but she's talking about doing a grid-tied system. Different animal altogether.
'
If you're talking stand-alone off-grid then 220 electric isn't viable for appliances.

Especially water heating, etc.

Think propane.

For grid-tied systems like mine, I have plenty of 220 motors in my shop, but I still have solar hot water with a propane heater for the house, and my pool is solar with propane boiler as a backup.

The pool motor is 220 however.

[Sonny]

BG.. even if your central heat is Gas or oil, the blower fan is most likely 220vac, right?
i was looking at grid-tied inverters/chargers yesterday. The Xantrex GT caught my eye.

ALSO;
With some members here have battery storage I was wondering if anyone has looked into or might know someone who has an opinion about a process called plulse charging, that some say will increase lead acid battery life and capacity? Looks interesting to me and I'm wanting to build one.

Lead Acid Battery Desulfation ?
http://www.scribd.com/doc/7218398/batterydesulfator
http://leadacidbatterydesulfation.yuku.com/directory

[Teal]

Just a note for those of you who are into this, re: battery choice.

I left an extra AGM battery in the barn 4 years ago. My bad. Summer highs up to 106 or more and lows to 0 (welcome to Texas).

It is absolutely, perfectly fine. :eek:

[Sonny]

Some Utility company are paying a premium above the net-metering price for grid-tied solar. Then again some like Hawaii only pay their "avoided cost" which is lessthan what they are charging you!

Where I live in Tennessee their paying $0.15/kwh If you qualify. Which is 50% greater then what I'm paying them.

[Teal]

Remember, a "net metering" law for your state doesn’t necessarily apply to rural electric cooperatives so give your utility company a call before going any further.

Some of the best areas to have solar, meaning large lots or acreage with no panel shading problems, have no net metering.

[Sonny]

see the Dsireusa.org site: Database of State Incentives for Renewables & Efficiency (http://www.dsireusa.org/)



DSIRE is a comprehensive source of information on state, local, utility, and federal incentives that promote renewable energy and energy efficiency. Choose one or both databases to search:
Renewable Energy Energy Efficiency

http://www.dsireusa.org/library/images/USMap/USMapFederal.gif (http://www.dsireusa.org/library/includes/genericfederal.cfm?currentpageid=1&search=federal&state=US&RE=1&EE=1) Federal Incentives


http://www.dsireusa.org/library/images/USmap/DSIREmap.gif

http://www.dsireusa.org/library/images/USMap/TerritoryMap2.gif (http://www.dsireusa.org/library/includes/territory.cfm?CurrentPageID=1&State=TR&EE=1&RE=1)US Territory Incentives

Please note: The information on the DSIRE web site provides an overview of incentives and other policies, but it should not be used as the only source of information when making purchasing decisions, investment decisions, tax decisions or other binding agreements. Please refer to the individual contact provided in each record to verify that a specific incentive or other policy is applicable to your specific project.

[Mousehound]

Good link Sonny!

[Sonny]

Thank you Mousehound,