Repugnant racism all in the family

[CanadaSue]

She is only seven years old but she is already uttering vile, racist comments in a chillingly matter-of-fact manner.

Black people should be killed, of course, the Winnipeg girl believes. They must be whipped with a ball and chain until they're dead, she explained.

"Black people don't belong," she calmly told a Manitoba Child and Family Services staffer -as if the social worker was missing a few marbles and couldn't comprehend how things ought to be.

Yesterday in a Winnipeg courtroom, that social worker testified about the little girl's shocking attitude toward blacks and other visible minorities.

It's an extraordinary and controversial case in which the Manitoba government is seeking permanent custody of the girl and her younger brother who were seized from their parents last year.

This unidentified family made international headlines when it was reported that the kids were seized because the girl showed up at school with a swastika and neo-Nazi references scrawled on her limbs.

We live in one of the most multicultural societies in the world but, testified the social worker, the girl routinely describes blacks in the most offensive way possible. You all know that terrible word.

One wonders what she thinks of her classmates. It's been many decades since virtually every kid in a typical Canadian school was white. Does she talk to the black child sitting in the desk beside her? If so, what must the conversation be like?

What about the native kids? Winnipeg, after all, has the largest aboriginal population of any major Canadian city. Does she shun all her native classmates at recess and sneer at Jewish and Muslim students when she walks by?

Has she ever eaten a piece of mouthwatering Lebanese baklava, spicy Caribbean beef rotis, a crispy South Asian pakora or a falafel?

A family court judge is to play a crucial role in determining the kind of woman she will grow up to be -- and, likewise, the personality her little brother will develop.

Leaving them with their parents may well ensure that they become dyed-in-the-wool racists, stripped of many of the good things that make us human.

If I were all-powerful for a day, I'd be tempted to not only seize the kids permanently but sterilize the parents so they could never procreate again.

But where do you draw the line? There are countless parents everywhere preaching intolerance, discrimination and hate to their kids. We just don't know about it. Where do we set the bar?

Yanking children from families with repulsive views is a slippery slope to social chaos. As Alan Borovoy, of the Canadian Civil Liberties Association points out, ideology alone isn't a good enough reason to tear a family apart.

"Human beings are very complex," he says. "A person can be completely unacceptable in some respects and a terrific parent in other respects.

"We have to understand that's part of the complexity of human nature."

Gary Direnfeld, an Ontario-based social worker, author and expert in child development, says the state has no business seizing kids from parents with repugnant views unless it leads to psychological or behavioural problems.

"Do we want to hear of kids being indoctrinated into racism, hatred, supremacy? The answer is clearly no. It's dysfunctional," he says.

"But is it necessarily the case that we have to intervene? No."

Whatever happens, teachers and child welfare workers will be keeping a close eye on these two kids.

But what else is going on behind closed doors?


http://www.thewhig.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1583274

[frodo]

Lock the parents up.

These ones too:

Thirteen-year-old twins Lamb and Lynx Gaede have one album out, another on the way, a music video, and lots of fans.

They may remind you of another famous pair of singers, the Olsen Twins, and the girls say they like that. But unlike the Olsens, who built a media empire on their fun-loving, squeaky-clean image, Lamb and Lynx are cultivating a much darker personna. They are white nationalists and use their talents to preach a message of hate.

Known as "Prussian Blue" -- a nod to their German heritage and bright blue eyes -- the girls from Bakersfield, Calif., have been performing songs about white nationalism before all-white crowds since they were nine.

http://abcnews.go.com/primetime/story?id=1231684&page=1

[A.T. Hagan]

Thought crimes now become an imprisonable offense?

.....Alan.

[rb.]

While I hate to see kids growing up like this, what would be done if the kids lived in an environment where yelling was the prominent feature? Would they remove them from the home? Not likely. Would the kid yell at school? Very likely. And then you teach them about punishment, and what it's like to live in the world around them, not just their home. Same thing with the racism.

And after one of the black kids, or the native kids, beat their asses on the playground for nasty name-calling or other insults, the kids will begin to clue in.

[Mama Alanna]

Originally Posted by rb.

And after one of the black kids, or the native kids, beat their asses on the playground for nasty name-calling or other insults, the kids will begin to clue in.

It would be nice to think so, rb, but that will probably just reinforce the notion that "those people" are <insert negative stereotype here>.

[shalym]

Originally Posted by rb.

While I hate to see kids growing up like this, what would be done if the kids lived in an environment where yelling was the prominent feature? Would they remove them from the home? Not likely. Would the kid yell at school? Very likely. And then you teach them about punishment, and what it's like to live in the world around them, not just their home. Same thing with the racism.

And after one of the black kids, or the native kids, beat their asses on the playground for nasty name-calling or other insults, the kids will begin to clue in.

Or, after one of the black kids, or the native kids, are kind to her when she needs it, or does something else to make her realize that maybe, just maybe her parents don't know everything, the kid will begin to clue in.

Shari

[frodo]

A. T.:

Thought crimes now become an imprisonable offense?

Try pretending to be a Muslim and discuss the desirability of the demise of the President and let us know what happens to you.

[Feather]

A friend has 3 children. The oldest is a son she adopted and is white, the 2nd is a son's teacher called her to say he had told a blck child that he could not play with her at recess because she was black. The Mom told the teacher she would take care of it. When he got home from school and asked his sister to go play, Mom said no, you can't play with her because she is not all white. He burst into tears so mom asked where he got the idea that he could not play with a black child. He said it was grandma, mom said that grandma was wrong and she would talk to her. He went to school the next day and told the little black girl that he was sorry and asked if she wanted to play a game for recess.

The mom raised all three of her kids like this and to be accepting of people with special needs. None of her kids seem to even notice what color someone is only what is in the other persons actions.

[Ter]

However abhorrent the cultural ideas of the parents are, taking away the kids because their views differ from the current mainstream is not defensible. Child welfare services should act if children get physically or sexually abused or are not fed, that's it.
As of today, I will stop referring to the US and Canada as "free societies".

Ter

[ob1]

Racism from all sides is an ugly and irrational divissive mindset that has unfortunately burned its way into cultures worldwide.The problem with these little individual snippets is that thay are not representative of racism as a whole and IMO serve only to fuel the flames of it.Case in point...for every case such as this one there is also one from a black family,a Chinese family,a Mexican family,and so on.Shame on the parents of this young child.They have dealt her a crappy hand.

[Fiddlerdave]

Originally Posted by Ter

However abhorrent the cultural ideas of the parents are, taking away the kids because their views differ from the current mainstream is not defensible. Child welfare services should act if children get physically or sexually abused or are not fed, that's it.
As of today, I will stop referring to the US and Canada as "free societies".

Ter

This not a matter of their views "differing". These children are advocating actual murder, torture and that fellow citizens are not worthy to exist.

I actually find it quite interesting you do not see a problem in teaching children murder, etc. in regard to other people in context of their race. I suppose you would approve of parental sponsored and supported Columbine massacre kids up to the point the kids actually started shoothign their guns? That protecting children from obvious severe child abuse is compromising a country's freedom! The freedom of parents to raise mass murderers?

[Ter]

These children are advocating actual murder, torture and that fellow citizens are not worthy to exist.

Dave, I saw only racism in the OP. I admit not having read it thoroughly.
My reaction was based on the intolerance against non-PC opinions and the ease with which kids are often removed from parents in the West.
I was also picked by the controversy of the beauty queen getting slammed because she said she is against gay marriage.

I find racism as abhorrent as you but I object to the nanny state and all that PC shit.

Ter

[CanadaSue]

Just found this article giving a bit more information about the family & case:

***Parents put blame on daughter for racist remarks, custody hearing told


A young girl's head was shaved, and her parents described themselves as a skinhead family, court was told on Day 2 of a child custody hearing in Winnipeg.

The case involves a girl, now eight years old, who went to school with white supremacist symbols drawn on her skin. Her mother and stepfather, who are accused of racist teachings and failing to provide adequate care for their children, began a court battle for their children this week.

The girl and her brother have been in the care of the government's Child and Family Services agency since March 2008, when the girl showed up in school with a swastika on her arm.

Her teacher scrubbed it off in the afternoon but the girl showed up again the next day with another one, along with other white supremacist symbols drawn on her body.

Caseworkers were alerted and went to the family's apartment, where they found neo-Nazi symbols and flags, and took custody of the couple's two-year-old son. CFS officials picked up the daughter at her school.

The case has garnered international attention and sparked debate over how far parents can go to instill beliefs in their children — and how far the government should go to protect children from those beliefs.

On Monday, the social worker who initially interviewed the girl after she was taken into care testified the child was well versed in racist and hateful propaganda. None of the CFS workers can be identified in order to protect the identities of the children.

The girl spoke of this being a white man's world and provided graphic suggestions of how to kill people of colour, the worker testified.

On Tuesday, another social worker testified about her first meeting with the parents — about three weeks after the two children were apprehended.

They told the social worker their daughter often makes things up, and was famous for lying, the worker testified. The parents also said the girl had likely drawn some of the symbols on her body herself.

When the social worker asked why the girl was able to talk about certain things, like hurting people or killing people of colour, the stepfather said it was probably something she'd heard in a private conversation and was probably a joke, the hearing was told.

According to the social worker, the mother said she had no idea why her daughter would refer to them as skinheads.

But the social worker said extended family members later told her that the parents had shaved their heads, and the little girl's, and described themselves as a skinhead family.

Then she met the girl, who the social worker described as bright and articulate, even chatty. They met in the girl's new foster home, where the girl was eager to show off her room, and her brother's toys.

The girl told the social worker that her mother used to read her stories but had stopped when she met and married a new man, the social worker testified.

"She was not a nice mommy anymore," the social worker quoted the girl as saying.

The girl said she started missing school because her mom and stepdad didn't wake her up on time. She told the social worker that her stepfather made the rules in the house, that he was angry and would get drunk, and that he didn't make meals, or change her brother's diaper often enough.

The girl said she used to have non-white friends before her stepdad came along, but after he was in her life, the girl's mother told her, "If you have a friend who's not white, I won't be your mom anymore," the social worker testified.

Testimony from child welfare officials and lawyers will continue through the week.

The hearing will adjourn but resume in June, when lawyers for the parents will make their arguments.

The parents no longer live together, and each has asked for custody of the children. The girl's mother is not living in Manitoba anymore and has not been in court. Her lawyer's request for an adjournment Monday morning was rejected.

She has said she can't afford to travel but will attempt to when the parents have an opportunity to make their case next month.

The stepfather is in court and has filed a constitutional challenge, saying his right to freedom of expression, religion and association were violated when the children were apprehended.

The girl's biological father has also been attending the hearing, sitting in the gallery and watching the proceedings. He told CBC News he hopes the children's best interests won't be overlooked in the rhetoric of political ideology.***


http://www.cbc.ca/canada/manitoba/st...-winnipeg.html

[Bri2301]

Kids don't think of things like that. Those statements are a result of the nonsense that the child was fed. Normal and sane people don't think that way, it's revolting.

Jeff B.

[Ross]

Would black kids taught to hate whites be taken from their parents ?

[rb.]

Ok, new thought. We have hate crime legislation in this country. Maybe the kids could be kept away from Mom and Step Dad with that. Maybe we need a law that it is illegal to teach children views that would fall under the hate crime category? Conspiracy to commit hate crimes, perhaps? Then Mom and Dad are criminals, and the kids can become wards of the state? But even then, would that take away kids from religious homes that believe homosexuality is wrong, in a country where gay marriage is legal? Very complicated, IMHO.

And I hope they don't get the kids back, that the kids get a good crack at life.

[Susie]

So do kids brought up with homosexual parents become gay?

[Lars]

http://hiphoprepublican.com/2005/10/...n-america.html

[CanadaSue]

It's a slippery slope. If we start taking kids away because parents have 'evil ideas about certain groups', where does it end? Societies' & their standards change. What's accepted & commonplace today is tomorrow's non-pc.


rb. I LOATHE our hate laws. They're generally, (the charges), applied along with other charges - rape, murder, assault. I'm disturbed by the idea that certain groups have special provisions added to the law that can be applied for the purpose of criminal charges. Should the REASON for a murder make it any more or less awful a crime? Rape, assault?

I find the ideas this little girl is being brought up with despicable - always have. But I have seen other cultural groups raise their kids with an equal amount of predjudice. Why does it seem to not be tolerated only if the family is white?

[Ought Six]

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences of too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it."
-- Thomas Jefferson (1791) --

[ob1]

Originally Posted by CanadaSue

I find the ideas this little girl is being brought up with despicable - always have. But I have seen other cultural groups raise their kids with an equal amount of predjudice. Why does it seem to not be tolerated only if the family is white?

Because generally there is a precluded perception that non white racism is justified somehow because non whites were oppressed and looked down upon by whites.Seems all attempts at rectifying the 'sins of the father' is construed as an admission of this very syndrome and serves primarily to perpetuate racial divisiveness.Just the use of the term "racism" is almost always used to describe a white on minority situation.Unless of course a situation arrises as did recently in Hawaiian Gardens Cal. ,which was a minority on minority issue.

But then.....you probably already knew that.

[Mama Alanna]

AKA "only white people can be prejudiced".