Celebrating Christmas w/o Christ

[Potemkin]

http://news.scotsman.com/scotland/Du...ith.5821484.jp

Dundee to celebrate Christmas with no reference to Christianity
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Published Date: 13 November 2009
By FRANK URQUHART
IT IS a story that could have come straight out of the pages of Dr Seuss's The Grinch that Stole Christmas.

City leaders in Dundee are planning a spectacular festive celebration – but with no references to Christianity.

Hailed as a celebration of Dundee's contemporary culture and innovative past, festive season revellers are being promised a visual feast of projections and lights later this month. It will be a "Winter Light Night" of festive season illuminations, audiovisual displays, music, street art performances and a children's torchlight procession.

But yesterday the city council and the event's organisers were under attack from church leaders, who accused them of eroding the religious significance of Christmas by removing all references to Christianity from the annual switch on of the city's Christmas lights.

And, instead of the traditional nativity story, the festival will feature a solar-powered disco, a continental market, a circus and a fairy on stilts.

Members of Dundee's Church of Scotland Presbytery have condemned the decision and are urging Kirk members to contact their local councillors to protest against the move.

The presbytery's church and society committee is also planning to raise the concerns with the city council.

The Rev Allan Webster, vice-convener of the committee and chaplain to both Dundee City Council and the city's Overgate Centre, said: "We understand that the Christmas lights are being switched on without the usual events surrounding that.

"The presbytery is concerned at the dropping of the term 'Christmas lights' in favour of 'winter lights' at the festival."

Mr Webster said the Kirk's convener was writing to the council chief exective to express concern. "Members of all the congregations within the presbytery are also being encouraged to take the matter up with their councillors.

"Christmas is a Christian festival, and the dropping of the term Christmas lights and the telling of the Christmas story is an erosion of the religious festival."

He added: "I don't think there is anything sinister here. I think it is more a case of this having slipped through the cracks rather being any sort of politically correct move.

"The presbytery's concern is that somehow, the Christmas aspect of the festival has fallen off the edge."

Mr Webster also explained that as chaplain to the council, he had been invited last year to give a Christmas message before the lights switch-on. It appeared unlikely that he would be playing any role at this year's event.

But he stressed: "I am not knocking the whole programme. It is important for all faiths to be able to celebrate their festivals and I must stress I would also be concerned if people of any other religion had theirs diluted."

A spokesman for Dundee City Council said: "When we are contacted by Dundee Presbytery we will look at the points they are raising and respond to them."

[rc]

And, instead of the traditional nativity story, the festival will feature a solar-powered disco, a continental market, a circus and a fairy on stilts.

Well, the solar-powered disco is nice, I guess. But for me, nothing says Christmas quite like a fairy on stilts.

[Ought Six]

Xmas is getting farther and farther away from its religious origins. This is nothing new. It has been going on for at least a half-century here in America.

[Malcolm]

The Gospel and the signifigance of the Crusifiction have been diluted also to a "Politically Correct" version these days. Just drop in to a Church over the weekend and listen. The Church has developed a limp wrist!!!!!!

[Potemkin]

Originally Posted by Ought Six

Xmas is getting farther and farther away from its religious origins. This is nothing new. It has been going on for at least a half-century here in America.

Sure, but have the cojones to call it "Winter Solstice", "Yule", "Saturnalia" or something like that.

[Ought Six]

"Yule" and "Saturnalia" are religious holidays, and that is the opposite of the apparent intent of the city of Dundee. "Winter solstice" would be appropriate, as that is something that just about every human culture celebrates.

[rb.]

There hasn't been any Christ in any Christmas in my family since before I was born, and we still call it Christmas. What's the big deal with calling it Christmas? I never did understand what the problem with that was.

[disastercat]

I don't understand why UK cities and towns are coming up with such silly names. When I was asked to do some door decorating at a secular office, I suggested to my Jewish boss that we do "The Winter Solstice Celebrations" and have a collage of Winter images from around the world. The office ended up doing something else, but a lot of people liked the basic idea. Its fairly easy to do a nice and Seasonal town party without being so strident about trying to leave out everything that might, just possibly, offend someone.

My vote for silliest UK name (or anywhere for that matter) has got to be WINTERVALL, which sounds just as stupid in UK English as it does in American. I can just hear it now "oh Wintervall, oh Wintervall, how we are laughing at you!"

Some things, like Nativity plays, can be done in an historical context (pick something like a local script from the 15th century or St. George and the Dragon) but for a secular celebration other symbols like Yule Trees, Wreaths, Spinning Tops, and other traditional but not overtly religious symbols can be used. Yes, Yule Trees (now Christmas trees) do have both Pagan and Christian traditions around them, but in themselves they are just trees. The same thing for a spinning top vs. say a Menorah.

Almost every tribe on the planet has something special they associate with the day, and a secular celebration can celebrate that. My mother's church used to always do "Christmas around the world" and you can just extend that to Solstice around the world. Trying too hard to make up new and strange stuff, like dancing fairies and solar discos just ends up looking comical and desperate. Which it is.

[BirdGuano]

A Politically Correct
Christmas Greeting

Best wishes for an environmentally conscious, socially responsible, low stress, non-addictive, gender neutral, winter solstice holiday, practiced within the most joyous traditions of the religious persuasion of your choice, but with respect for the religious persuasion of others who choose to practice their own religion as well as those who choose not to practice a religion at all;

Additionally,

a fiscally successful, personally fulfilling, and medically uncomplicated recognition of the generally accepted calendar year, but not without due respect for the calendars of choice of other cultures whose contributions have helped make our society great, without regard to the race, creed, color, religious, or sexual preferences of the wisher.

(Disclaimer: This greeting is subject to clarification or withdrawal. It implies no promise by the wisher to actually implement any of the wishes for her/himself or others and no responsibility for any unintended emotional stress these greetings may bring to those not caught up in the holiday spirit.)

[leistb]

Originally Posted by BirdGuano

A Politically Correct
Christmas Greeting

Best wishes for an environmentally conscious, socially responsible, low stress, non-addictive, gender neutral, winter solstice holiday, practiced within the most joyous traditions of the religious persuasion of your choice, but with respect for the religious persuasion of others who choose to practice their own religion as well as those who choose not to practice a religion at all;

Additionally,

a fiscally successful, personally fulfilling, and medically uncomplicated recognition of the generally accepted calendar year, but not without due respect for the calendars of choice of other cultures whose contributions have helped make our society great, without regard to the race, creed, color, religious, or sexual preferences of the wisher.

(Disclaimer: This greeting is subject to clarification or withdrawal. It implies no promise by the wisher to actually implement any of the wishes for her/himself or others and no responsibility for any unintended emotional stress these greetings may bring to those not caught up in the holiday spirit.)

Amen.

[Fiddlerdave]

Originally Posted by Ought Six

Xmas is getting farther and farther away from its religious origins. This is nothing new. It has been going on for at least a half-century here in America.

Indeed.

I wonder when religions are going to catch on to the fact that this is what ALWAYS happens when you inject your religion with the state. Your religion gets watered down, converted to support politicians' purposes, prostituted to commercial use, and otherwise perverted.

Christians should be dancing for joy Walmart, etc. would stop using their Jesus' reputed birthday to market their wares.

[Mama Alanna]

"Christmas is a Christian festival, and the dropping of the term Christmas lights and the telling of the Christmas story is an erosion of the religious festival."

The problem here is that there are TWO winter solstice holidays that both go by the same name. There is the Religious Christmas (church services, Nativity plays, songs about Baby Jesus), and the secular Xmas (gift giving, decorated trees, songs about Santa Claus). The OP is complaining because he thinks that the city authorities are (or should be) celebrating Christmas; what they are doing is commemorating Xmas. And that is as it should be. A multicultural city cannot pick out one religious observance and say "We're going to celebrate Christmas, and the rest of you has-been beliefs can go piss up a rope." Yes, have the nativity play if you like -- but include other people's solstice activities and observances too.

Although I DO agree that the disco and the fairy on stilts is exceedingly weird and not part of any Xmas tradition that I am aware of.

[Ought Six]

MA:

"Although I DO agree that the disco and the fairy on stilts is exceedingly weird and not part of any Xmas tradition that I am aware of."

In certain parts of San Francisco, West Hollywood and Greenwich Village, I believe they are a year-round tradition.