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Old 12-14-2010, 07:21 PM   #1
Ought Six
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Arrow Russia to spend $650 billion$ on new weapons for the army in the next decade

Putin Pledges $646 Billion To Modernize Russia's Army


Radio Free Europe News
December 13, 2010


Prime Minister Vladimir Putin says the Russian government has pledged 20 trillion rubles ($646 billion) through 2020 to modernize and rearm that country's military.

Russia's armed forces have demanded an increase in spending to modernize its aging infrastructure and weapons systems after years of insufficient funding.

Putin, speaking at the SevMash naval shipyard in the northern town of Severodvinsk, on the White Sea, told government ministers and top military officers that Russia must overcome "the consequences of those years when the army and the navy were seriously underfinanced."

Putin said the modernization program would focus on strategic nuclear forces, air-defense systems, communication, intelligence, a fifth-generation fighter plane, and on the navy.
_____

compiled from Reuters reports
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Old 12-15-2010, 05:24 PM   #2
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what was USA budget ? for weapons


p.s. your link goes to an unrelated article
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Old 12-15-2010, 05:24 PM   #3
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what was USA budget ? (for new weapons
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Old 12-15-2010, 06:00 PM   #4
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Arrow

O:
Quote:
"what was USA budget ? for weapons"
A lot. Ours cost a lot more, of course, but they generally work better, as Syria found out a few years ago.

This is an article about a major change in Russian military policy, so what is your point, exactly?

To give you a better idea of the scope of their new weapons program:
Quote:
http://www.barentsobserver.com/russi...496-16174.html

Some 1300 new types of weapons will be made, and new production lines will be up or existing ones expanded to manufacture 220 of the new types of weaponry.
This is not a small undertaking. Russia is committing a huge amount of resources to upgrading their military weapons. Surely you agree that this is news, right?
----------
Quote:
"p.s. your link goes to an unrelated article"
Thanks. Fixed.
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Old 12-16-2010, 10:48 AM   #5
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O6 : No I just wanted a point of reference. I agree that 650 billion is A LOT of money. About the quality of weapon reference : NATO (Mostly USA) always had better technology and precision and former USSR and Russia always relied on numbers. I doubt that Russia will continue with this strategy anymore. They might switch to better technology and less # weapons because they don't have the manpower and production capacity as a free resource anymore.

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Surely you agree that this is news, right?
Yes I agree, why do you question that ??
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Old 12-17-2010, 12:18 PM   #6
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Thumbs up

This poster is of the President's budget request for FY 2011

Oric, Here ya go click on this link below (1.1 MB,JPG), in the lower right hand corner around the copper penny is a summary titled "Total Budget"
note that interest payments on the National debt alone is $250 Billion.

http://www.deathandtaxesposter.com/D...PosterSize.jpg


Actual Poster is a 24''x36'' offset on thick #100 glossy cover stock.
and can be purchased from http://www.wallstats.com/deathandtaxes/


DnTr1.jpg


"Death and Taxes" is a large representational graph and poster of the federal budget. It contains over 500 programs and departments and almost every program that receives over 200 million dollars annually. The data is straight from the president's 2011 budget request and will be debated, amended, and approved by Congress to begin the fiscal year. All of the item circles are proportional in size to their funding levels for visual comparison and the percentage change from both 2010 and 2001 is included so you can spot trends.




!
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Old 12-19-2010, 12:20 PM   #7
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Thank you Sonny .. So United States "asked" budget for Military spending is over 800b for one year.
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Old 12-19-2010, 05:54 PM   #8
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Arrow

You are mixing up two very different things here. Russia is not going to have a $650 billion$ military budget for the next decade. Putin is demanding an additional $650 billion$ above and beyond their normal military spending to modernize and expand their weapons system. We, on the other hand, are cutting our spending on new weapons systems and modernization of existing ones.
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Old 12-19-2010, 06:03 PM   #9
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They are adding 65 billion / year for R&D .. From what the Sonny has posted we can calculate how much the budget has for new systems


For navy (RDT&E) 17.8 Billion
For air force (classified projects) 18.0b
air force RDT&E 28.0b
Army RDT&E 10.4b

sum up : 74.2 billion (for 2011) ... you may add 5% increase/yr (or not) and you have a much bigger spending budget for the next 10 years compared with Russia, it is safe to say you folks have already a head start in terms of technology so they ain't gonna catch you soon.
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Old 12-19-2010, 06:48 PM   #10
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O:
Quote:
"They are adding 65 billion / year for R&D ."
No, that is not correct. Putin is asking for $65 billion$ for procurement of new systems and to build new production lines. The R&D for these new systems has mostly already been done.
----------
Quote:
"sum up : 74.2 billion (for 2011) ... you may add 5% increase/yr (or not) and you have a much bigger spending budget for the next 10 years compared with Russia, it is safe to say you folks have already a head start in terms of technology so they ain't gonna catch you soon."
Because of their cheaper labor and materials, they get more than three times the weapons for every dollar they spend. That means a direct dollar-to-dollar spending comparison is just not valid. Furthermore, a lot of our military budget is being eaten up in Afghanistan. Russia is not engaged in any wars at the moment, so their military budget money is free to be used for modernization and new weapons.

So far as 'catching up' to us, I do not expect that Russia will become as powerful worldwide as the U.S. anytime soon, nor do I think that is their goal for now. I think their weapons buildup is aimed at deterring the Chinese, who are lusting after the open spaces and resources of sparsely populated Siberia.

Of course, the Russian have always had a very paranoid national character, so the fact that their increased defenses would deter us from attacking them as well, though we have no reason or desire to do so, is just an added attraction for them. The Russians feel they must deal from a position of strength. When they feel weaker militarily, they get very, very insecure. This is why they built a whole bunch of new ICBM systems aimed at us after the Cold War ended, while we built none.
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Old 12-19-2010, 08:22 PM   #11
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They are not worried about catching us Oric. We are not a threat to Russia, and really have not been for many years. Probably not since the Cuban missile crisis. Sure, we screwed with each other, and people died, but I dont really think either side really wanted a war with one another. China on the other hand........
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Old 12-20-2010, 12:30 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Ought Six View Post
O:No, that is not correct. Putin is asking for $65 billion$ for procurement of new systems and to build new production lines. The R&D for these new systems has mostly already been done.
I did not add US Navy, Army and Air Force procurement numbers in my previous post. There are a lot of new weapons orders on your side. I am too tired to open that gigantic JPG file again

Quote:
----------Because of their cheaper labor and materials, they get more than three times the weapons for every dollar they spend. That means a direct dollar-to-dollar spending comparison is just not valid. Furthermore, a lot of our military budget is being eaten up in Afghanistan. Russia is not engaged in any wars at the moment, so their military budget money is free to be used for modernization and new weapons.
True, but see above, your operations and new weapons procurement are other budget items, apart from the 75b$

Quote:
So far as 'catching up' to us, I do not expect that Russia will become as powerful worldwide as the U.S. anytime soon, nor do I think that is their goal for now. I think their weapons buildup is aimed at deterring the Chinese, who are lusting after the open spaces and resources of sparsely populated Siberia.
I wonder why or how Mongolia is left out of strategic maps. They are a part of the geography, have a lot of open space and not much of a defense force yet they remain peacefully between Russia and China. I really wonder what China would gain risking a tactical nuclear war to go north into the Siberian Tundra. Oil & Minerals ? Probably but is it worth fighting with Russia to invade these very expensive production areas. WHat so you think about this ?

Quote:
Of course, the Russian have always had a very paranoid national character, so the fact that their increased defenses would deter us from attacking them as well, though we have no reason or desire to do so, is just an added attraction for them. The Russians feel they must deal from a position of strength. When they feel weaker militarily, they get very, very insecure. This is why they built a whole bunch of new ICBM systems aimed at us after the Cold War ended, while we built none.
After they lost the Afghan war, they have been even more land locked ... They lost many states which pushed them away from Eurasian strategical points. A strong conventional military is important for the likes of Kazakhstan, Ukraine and Georgia (etc)
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Old 12-20-2010, 01:02 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Glockd View Post
They are not worried about catching us Oric. We are not a threat to Russia, and really have not been for many years. Probably not since the Cuban missile crisis. Sure, we screwed with each other, and people died, but I dont really think either side really wanted a war with one another. China on the other hand........
You forgot the dead Spetnaz they found in Alaska in the late 1980's.
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Old 12-20-2010, 02:44 PM   #14
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O:
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"I wonder why or how Mongolia is left out of strategic maps. They are a part of the geography, have a lot of open space and not much of a defense force yet they remain peacefully between Russia and China."
Inner Mongolia is an autonomous region within the nation of China. They have a separatist movement there that the Chinese regularly crush. Outer Mongolia managed to fight the Chinese and win their independence in 1921, to become the nation of Mongolia. Mongolia allied itself with the Soviet Union, and the Soviets protected it against the Chinese until the SU collapsed in 1989. In 1990, Mongolia had a democratic revolution and established a republican constitution, multiparty elections and free markets. Since then, their good diplomatic relations with all the other nations in the area have prevented problems. I think that if China tried to make a move on Mongolia, Russia would react quite badly.
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