Europe’s Tea Party political parties on the rise

Potemkin · 05-06-2011, 09:11 PM

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/eur...vestinginsight

Europe’s Tea Party political parties on the rise
Commentary: True Finns electoral gains signal hard-right gains in Europe

By Jason O'Mahony

DUBLIN (MarketWatch) — It’s very easy for Europeans and Americans to have stereotypical views of each other.

Americans look over the pond and shake their heads at those crazy Europeans and their leftwing liberal ideas. Europeans look back at the Americans, aghast at their lack of universal healthcare (or sheer bloody terror of the concept when it finally arrives) and obsession with Muslims and terrorism.

Then along comes a man like Timo Soini from Finland, a country famous for mobile phones, killing Russian soldiers in creative ways (when they invade Finland. Not for kicks), the odd Formula One racing driver and having a fair claim at being the home of the greatest fictional giveaway socialist of all time, Santa Claus.

Suddenly, the stereotype is on its ear.

ukmum · 05-07-2011, 07:34 AM

Quote:

Americans look over the pond and shake their heads at those crazy Europeans and their leftwing liberal ideas. Europeans look back at the Americans, aghast at their lack of universal healthcare (or sheer bloody terror of the concept when it finally arrives) and obsession with Muslims and terrorism.

Spot on!

Re Finland, hardly tea party stuff in the US sense
Finland's move to the Right is very slight and really similar to the UKs Conservative party... just a slight shift away from far left to left of middle. Quite hard to explain as US politics is hard leaning to the Right..even your Democrats are not cosidered leftist as such more viewed a as middle/right leaning over here.

Potemkin · 05-07-2011, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ukmum

Spot on!

Re Finland, hardly tea party stuff in the US sense
Finland's move to the Right is very slight and really similar to the UKs Conservative party... just a slight shift away from far left to left of middle. Quite hard to explain as US politics is hard leaning to the Right..even your Democrats are not cosidered leftist as such more viewed a as middle/right leaning over here.

With respect, have you traveled to the US for any significant length of time or lived here? Or is this attitude of the way Americans think coming from skewed reports from the British papers?

I would also submit just because a generation has gotten used to "free stuff" doesn't mean they are Liberal. It just means they don't want to pay for stuff they have been getting for free and not they had some deep burning desire that Universal Healthcare was a "human right".

If the UK were more liberal they they would be more accepting of those who are UK citizens but originated from other countries.

Oric · 05-07-2011, 11:23 AM

Ukmum : do you call "Finland for only Finns" rheotoric more on the left then any of the mainstream us political movements ? I do not

ukmum · 05-07-2011, 11:34 AM

I do think that the UK is a liberal country, and we are very accepting of those from other nations...you only have to walk through any major city to see that.

My comments were generalistic. Even in Finland the hard/far right are a small minority. There has been a back lash against far left liberalism, however I do not think Europe is anywhere near the far right of the politial spectrum.

The attitude here is that Universal healthcare is a right. This is not a leftist viewpoint nor a rightest viewpoint....it is the majority viewpoint.

Oric "Finland for Fins" is still minority viewpoint. It is a backlash against the other political parties who have not tackled the majoritys view that immigration has gone too far. The BNP has also gained some politcial ground in the UK for the same reason.

Oric · 05-07-2011, 03:33 PM

ukmum : Xenophobia in Europe and US have different flavors. United States seems to handle foreigners much better then Europeans because United States did not colonize the 3rd world in the same manner as Europe did, the colonization had its payback after world war II when the former colonies started to flood in the "master" countries. Only thing comparable with this for United States is the illegal immigrants from Mexico and Cuba. The melting pot process worked for other nationalities. Europe did not have this vision and agenda for its immigrants. So today there is a much more radical stance against immigrants in Europe, I am afraid the stance has passed the tipping point and there will be no equilibrium.

ukmum · 05-08-2011, 04:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oric

ukmum : Xenophobia in Europe and US have different flavors. United States seems to handle foreigners much better then Europeans because United States did not colonize the 3rd world in the same manner as Europe did, the colonization had its payback after world war II when the former colonies started to flood in the "master" countries. Only thing comparable with this for United States is the illegal immigrants from Mexico and Cuba. The melting pot process worked for other nationalities. Europe did not have this vision and agenda for its immigrants. So today there is a much more radical stance against immigrants in Europe, I am afraid the stance has passed the tipping point and there will be no equilibrium.

I dont see it quite as stark as that, but I agree to a certain extent that there is backlash against more recent immigrants in Europe and the UK. In the UK part of the problem as I see it is the inefficiency of our Government to deal with illegal immigrants. They have been weak in removing them from the country and all the implications that has on our economy and support structure....that is different from Xenophobia persay.

I stand by my assertion that the UK is a tolerant and multicultural place to live

flourbug · 05-08-2011, 07:34 AM

ukmum, I don't know where in the UK you are located, but I have several friends in Manchester who are absolutely purple with rage over the number of legal immigrants, never mind illegal. They do not support a multicultural society at all, in fact they are 100% against it. They complain about gangs of orientals attacking gays in a certain district of Manchester, bad drivers, insolent prejudiced shopkeepers, no-go zones, women can't transport their children directly to school, problems with students and gangs. I'm not familiar with the demographics in Manchester, but they tell me it is at a boiling point there and the natives are going to put up with just so much before they strike back at immigrants. Since I have friends south of London who feel similarly, I assumed it was the general feeling. What you say about tolerance takes me by surprise.

flourbug · 05-08-2011, 07:40 AM

Quote:

Only thing comparable with this for United States is the illegal immigrants from Mexico and Cuba. The melting pot process worked for other nationalities.

Middle and South America. Cubans came over in the 1960s and assimilated quickly. At some point, in the 70s-80s, Middle and South Americans decided NOT to assimilate. They came here to work, not to immigrate. When they spoke of "their country" they meant Columbia, or Nicaragua, not the United States. They brought their wife here, and they had their anchor babies, but sent money back home, and bought property there, and built up their country, not the United States.

Americans are very welcoming to anyone who wants to become an American, regardless of nationality. We are fed up with people who come here to milk our economy, ignore our laws and sovereignty, take advantage of our entitlement programs, and march in the streets demanding we acknowledge their "right" to do so.

ukmum · 05-08-2011, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Americans are very welcoming to anyone who wants to become an American, regardless of nationality. We are fed up with people who come here to milk our economy, ignore our laws and sovereignty, take advantage of our entitlement programs, and march in the streets demanding we acknowledge their "right" to do so.

I think this sums up the sentiment in the UK too.

Flourbug I have lived in and around London and the South East of England and have to say although I know there are "hot spots" of Xenophobia, particulrly when immigrants chooose not to integrate.....particularly in the North of the country ...this is a pet hate when I read about it but I have to say I have not come across it myself. Manchester is an odd mix of up and coming middle class and very poor areas.

Where I currently live is fairly mixed culturally..my childrens school for example has 25% of children with English as a second Language.
London though is multicultural through and though...

Samen · 05-08-2011, 05:38 PM

Oric

Europe has a ½ a million illegal immigrants a year.
They all live out of the pocket of the Tax payers.
The legal immigrants mostly live out of the pocket of the tax payers.
The network to deal with both illegal and legal immigrants who don't want to work, just collect benefits by having max babies is expensive and comes out of the tax payers pockets and the people working in this network are also negative tax payers as their salaries are funded by taxpayers, so the immigration is reducing the population of "originals" who contribute to taxes at the same time.

Its a downhill spiral, and its getting worse, i understand political refugees but when the situation gets so out of hand as it is now, that is endangering the economic future of inhabitants in EU countries something has to be done.

Is this a planed attack orchestrated by a third party or just people looking for a better life.

If an attach its working good.
if it is just people looking for a better life, well they will have it for a while, but in a few years they will loose it as the countries they are moving to will lose it. A natural cycle relay, look at the lemmings.

Samen · 05-08-2011, 06:43 PM

And now they are migrants, what happened to illegal immigrant or war refugee, glad they safe though.

--

More than 400 migrants from Libya had to be rescued by Italian coast guards after their fishing boat hit rocks on the small island of Lampedusa.
TV images of the dramatic night-time rescue showed some migrants jumping or falling into the sea.
Others held on to ropes strung between the boat and the shoreline as Italian coast guards helped them to shore.
It came hours after Pope Benedict urged Roman Catholics to show more tolerance towards migrants from north Africa.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-13326719

Samen · 05-09-2011, 04:59 AM

Timo Soini on Wall Street Journal:

Why I Won't Support More Bailouts

Insolvency must be purged from Europe's system and it must be done openly and honestly.

Kassy · 05-09-2011, 04:36 PM

It's not just the illegal immigrants but also jobs disappearing because of outsourcing and problems with sustaining the welfare state. Blaming immigrants is much too easy IMHO.

An added bonus is anti-Europeanism. We have much recent history as independant countries so it's really easy to say you don't want more integration.

All the Poles and Bulgarians picking our tomatoes do make our unemployed look bad...

ukmum · 05-10-2011, 02:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kassy

It's not just the illegal immigrants but also jobs disappearing because of outsourcing and problems with sustaining the welfare state. Blaming immigrants is much too easy IMHO.

An added bonus is anti-Europeanism. We have much recent history as independant countries so it's really easy to say you don't want more integration.

All the Poles and Bulgarians picking our tomatoes do make our unemployed look bad...

I think that things like the Human Rights act and the European Union has eroded our sovreignty which has not helped either. Although Im not against the EU persay the perception is that we (the brits) are not getting a good deal out of it.

On the tomato picking, if you ask our farmers they would say that the Brits may not like the East Europeans doing the picking but when they offer the job to Brits they do not want to know...
Certainly in Britain if we could sort out the illegal immigrant problem rather than faff about like we do now then the whole perception of immigration would change I feel and stop the right wing extremeists gaining any more ground.
I do not believe that many of those who vote for these pople actually beleive wholsale the message they spout, but that they vote through frustration of the current system.