Do you qualify for food stamps?

[jane333]

dharma,

The omnipresent problem of the mentally ill who come into forums to harass the rest of us can't really be overstated. Mine was a reference to that fact. And that was all.

However, I've always thought that the measure of a man is not in what he claims about himself, but his knowledge of right and wrong...and the willingness to make a distinction between the two. I generally avoid those who aren't able to do that.

[flourbug]

Please, for what it's worth, tell your friend for me that it is never hopeless. I've been broke, I've seen everything I've worked for for years (decades!) washed away, I've been in despair. She must not give up. She and her husband can come back. I've seen it, I've lived it, I know it to be true.

She's 60 and in poor health. He's 67. They aren't going to recover from this. It is what it is.

No thanks necessary for telling the truth.

[dharma]

I'm sorry to hear that. Bad health changes the whole equation. How is HIS health?

My great-grandfather decided to retire from his real job and take on a fun project, so he sold his businesses to my grandfather, moved to California, and bought a citrus operation—on land that later became Knotts' Berry Farm. He was 85 at the time.

The guy who started our little oil company in '95 was 70 at the time, and ran it for 6 years. He continues as an entrepreneur; another project recently IPO'd, and is doing very well. His quintuple CABG did slow him down for a year or so.

My grandmother dropped her work week down to 30 hours when she was 80 or so, but didn't retire completely till she got cancer at 88 (she didn't trust anyone else to keep the books right).

My father is lazy—all he's doing at age 84 is keeping his little cattle herd, overseeing the construction of a 3500 SF barn and shop, remodeling a swimming pool, and bossing the crew that's clearing his acreage.

Etc. 67 is not old. He could straighten things out in 5 years, then, if he really wanted, throttle back and retire.

[sandyd]

Originally Posted by dharma

Of course it was, and a damn accurate shot, if I say so myself. I can be one snotty bastard. But I try not to be a hypocrite about it; I don't write posts about how mean everyone is, and then turn around and do the same thing. Ever read one of jane's religious posts? Sugar and spice and all things nice those are, boy.

I'd say we either all need to be aware of it and slow or stop it OR just accept that into our lives some spitballs will be posted.

[sandyd]

Originally Posted by flourbug

She's 60 and in poor health. He's 67. They aren't going to recover from this. It is what it is.

No thanks necessary for telling the truth.

He might, she won't unless she gets the rest and medical care and less stress in her life.

I hope either friends or a food bank helped with the food needed.

At least then she could feel she will give it back one day. Hard to feel that way with food stamps sometimes.

[flourbug]

Broken bodies, broken spirit. Second marriage for both. Hers ended after her twins were stillborn. His wife took the money and ran. When they married, things seemed great. They adopted two young boys, bought a nice house. Then she was diagnosed with cancer. Lost a hip, part of her spine, and a leg. Couldn't work any more. When her retirement funds were whacked after 911, she sold her house on the Gulf and used the profit to buy rentals at tax auctions. He suffered a brain injury in an auto accident and has not been the same since. He's strong - physically healthy - but the lights went out. He's serious, joyless, short attention span. The boys are both mentally ill, and they spent a fortune trying to help them.

They would have been fine if they sold off their real estate and business when things started to go south... But you know how it is. When you are losing a little, it is still a loss. You put more money in and pray things will turn around soon. Then you're even more invested and can't walk away... Now, here they are, further in debt than they can ever hope to repay. There's no seed money to start something new - even if they had a plan B.

The kicker was the judge today, railing at her for not being on benefits and NEEDING the rental income to pay her business expenses. She's discouraged over the government. Between the red tape, regulations, and ease of depriving her husband of his earned income - and thieving tenants having more rights than the property owners, she has had it. She feels like she's being forced down a cattle shute.

[dharma]

Well, hell. Not even any kids to help out.

If anyone qualifies for the safety net, it's them. Like I said: physical or mental disability, all bets are off. You're right: she should apply for every benefit under the sun, including SSI disability. Is he drawing Social Security, or holding out for better benefits?

They need to declare bankruptcy, like yesterday. Get out from under, clean slate, keep what they can, build what they can, while they still can. Too bad they sold the house, they could have carried that asset through bankruptcy. I'm betting they liquidated their retirement funds, too (been there), but, if not, they should protect those at all costs—again, they will carry through bankruptcy.

Just getting to zero can be a huge relief, if you're far enough in the red. They must not delay.

[Mama Alanna]

Originally Posted by jane333

dharma,

The omnipresent problem of the mentally ill who come into forums to harass the rest of us can't really be overstated. Mine was a reference to that fact. And that was all.

However, I've always thought that the measure of a man is not in what he claims about himself, but his knowledge of right and wrong...and the willingness to make a distinction between the two. I generally avoid those who aren't able to do that.

And how do you determine "his knowledge of right and wrong" other than by what "he claims about himself"?

[flourbug]

Just getting to zero can be a huge relief, if you're far enough in the red. They must not delay.

I agree 100%. They just have to get there psychologically first.

They need medical insurance which they have through group rates with his business, so she and the boys (17 and 19 now) need to apply for SSI ASAP. Then dissolve the businesses and go Chap 7 for the debts, and he can get SS.

[Ross]

Very different attitudes in Australia .

Little shame associated with welfare , unemployment payments etc .

One thing I did notice was a dramatic change in attitudes during the
last recession . Unemployed people suddenly became the enemy ,
the burden , the evil parasites . Strangely when the recession ended
so did the hatred . I think you will probably find the same thing
eventually happens in the USA .

The paradox was that there were not enough jobs to go
around so forcing people to work meant taking work away from some
of those who wanted to work .

Obviously it would have been a much different situation without
minimum wage laws.

I did learn from the last recession how unnecessary the anger was because
when jobs became available people went back to work ( albeit with
a little pushing ) .

[veggiecanner]

The difference is people are not taking the jobs here. They have become too comfortable on welfare. But we had alot of people here like that before the recession started.

Really no one has a problem if you need to go on welfare, but if your able to work and still taking welfare, it's not right. or are working and still taking welfare there is a real problem.

[Ross]

VC ... we also have an amazing number of people on the government
teat who I suspect should not be there ( disability pensions and the like ) .

I think the cycle is about to turn and they will come under greater
scrutiny as the economy deteriorates .



.

[jane333]

Originally Posted by Mama Alanna

And how do you determine "his knowledge of right and wrong" other than by what "he claims about himself"?

Good question.

With regard to online personas (the name on a screen), for me it's the smell test. He or she reveals himself to be something other than what he says ABOUT himself, and is usually unaware of his error.