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Old 10-24-2008, 04:02 PM   #1
lilly
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Default emergency Petition for Writ of Mandamus

Lets see where this one leads us.

http://dispositions.wordpress.com/20...-versus-obama/

it states this is a source of increasing embarrassment for Hawai'i Government.

Obama refuses to allow public access to the official records of the State of Hawaii.

A long document for those that choose to read it.

Will it do the trick? Your guess is as good as mine.
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Old 10-24-2008, 04:32 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by lilly View Post
Lets see where this one leads us.

http://dispositions.wordpress.com/20...-versus-obama/

it states this is a source of increasing embarrassment for Hawai'i Government.

Obama refuses to allow public access to the official records of the State of Hawaii.

A long document for those that choose to read it.

Will it do the trick? Your guess is as good as mine.
Obama is acting absolutely ridiculous about this if he is indeed a native born citizen. His behavior and attempts to keep the details surrounding his birth secret is appalling.

What is he hiding?

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Old 10-24-2008, 08:42 PM   #3
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The "controversy" mentioned in the suit is entirely manufactured by the Republican smear machine.

The reason for not releasing the birth certificate is that it's engaging with the smearers and tacitly assuming the burden of proof that you are NOT guilty of any of the fifty something assertions raised in Berg's lawsuit.

It is up to Berg and others to provide Proof of what they allege.

To put it another way Berg needs to PROVE what he has alleged, and of course he can't.

Were Obama to release it, Berg would then challenge Obama to prove he did NOT renounce his U.S. citizenship, and so on and so on.

The burden of proof is Berg's. this is a smear, pure and simple.


To give an example, I could allege that Sarah Palin has a history of violent physical attacks on her relatives and regulally beats her children black and blue, quoting "knowldgeable health professionals".

When she denies it, I challenge her to release their health records.

When she refuses, I simply declare "what has she got to hide? She must be hiding something."
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Old 10-24-2008, 10:00 PM   #4
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And BoneDaddy has a legitimate legal challenge against McCain's eligibility to run for president. Maybe we can wipe the slate clean and start all over again?
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Old 10-24-2008, 10:05 PM   #5
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There is no constitution requirement that a VP candidate not beat her relatives.

There are written qualifications for President. Berg and others want to know if Obama meets the qualifications.

Don't worry they won't find out before the election.

I think this is a much better subject than Palin's clothing.
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Old 10-25-2008, 01:58 AM   #6
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Obama is acting absolutely ridiculous about this if he is indeed a native born citizen. His behavior and attempts to keep the details surrounding his birth secret is appalling.

What is he hiding?
This guy wants an exemption from privacy law because he has a blog? I don't think so. And to not hire a local full attorney condemns just about any request, no matter what it is. Of course, he doesn't want to win, just have everyone look at the self serving blurbs he put in his filing (another reason he will probably be ignored - judges don't like being PR flunkies).

If I were Obama, I would let the Right Wing batter itself in this frenzy of appearing ever nuttier over far-out fantasies until later next week, partly to see if they release their "surprise", whatever that may be, then hand out this "vault copy", if such a thing exists. If Republicans thinks this competes with rumors at work about the next layoff, or another futile job interview, they are quite mistaken.

Since not a single credible member of the conservative press has bothered with this, its a little hard to know what such a request from someone like that would get for an answer from Obama. Apparently, "rule by a foreigner" doesn't keep any of right wing MSM up at night at all.

I am kind of curious how many Mccain supporters would be happy to hand out official copies of THEIR birth certificates (the bedrock of identity fraud) to all comers. Anyone who wants to can go see the original, but apparently that isn't convenient enough for Republicans, even though the "future of our country is at stake".

Last edited by Fiddlerdave; 10-25-2008 at 02:05 AM.
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Old 10-25-2008, 02:36 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by dyrt View Post
There is no constitution requirement that a VP candidate not beat her relatives.

There are written qualifications for President. Berg and others want to know if Obama meets the qualifications.

Don't worry they won't find out before the election.

I think this is a much better subject than Palin's clothing.
Notice how there is no logical or reasonable response from the Obama camp here - just ad hominems which indicate they are arguing from a weak and unsupportable position.


And finding out after the election will cause a constitutional crisis if he is not a native born US citizen. . . . seems that some may like to see this country go down rather than demand that Obama clear it up now.

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Old 10-25-2008, 03:32 AM   #8
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Go to link to see photos.

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2...n_the_usa.html

Born in the U.S.A.
August 21, 2008
Updated: August 26, 2008
The truth about Obama's birth certificate.
Summary
In June, the Obama campaign released a digitally scanned image of his birth certificate to quell speculative charges that he might not be a natural-born citizen. But the image prompted more blog-based skepticism about the document's authenticity. And recently, author Jerome Corsi, whose book attacks Obama, said in a TV interview that the birth certificate the campaign has is "fake."

We beg to differ. FactCheck.org staffers have now seen, touched, examined and photographed the original birth certificate. We conclude that it meets all of the requirements from the State Department for proving U.S. citizenship. Claims that the document lacks a raised seal or a signature are false. We have posted high-resolution photographs of the document as "supporting documents" to this article. Our conclusion: Obama was born in the U.S.A. just as he has always said.
Analysis
Since we first wrote about Obama's birth certificate on June 16, speculation on his citizenship has continued apace. Some claim that Obama posted a fake birth certificate to his Web page. That charge leaped from the blogosphere to the mainstream media earlier this week when Jerome Corsi, author of a book attacking Obama, repeated the claim in an Aug. 15 interview with Steve Doocy on Fox News.

Corsi: Well, what would be really helpful is if Senator Obama would release primary documents like his birth certificate. The campaign has a false, fake birth certificate posted on their website. How is anybody supposed to really piece together his life?

Doocy: What do you mean they have a "false birth certificate" on their Web site?

Corsi: The original birth certificate of Obama has never been released, and the campaign refuses to release it.

Doocy: Well, couldn't it just be a State of Hawaii-produced duplicate?

Corsi: No, it's a -- there's been good analysis of it on the Internet, and it's been shown to have watermarks from Photoshop. It's a fake document that's on the Web site right now, and the original birth certificate the campaign refuses to produce.

Corsi isn't the only skeptic claiming that the document is a forgery. Among the most frequent objections we saw on forums, blogs and e-mails are:

* The birth certificate doesn't have a raised seal.
* It isn't signed.
* No creases from folding are evident in the scanned version.
* In the zoomed-in view, there's a strange halo around the letters.
* The certificate number is blacked out.
* The date bleeding through from the back seems to say "2007," but the document wasn't released until 2008.
* The document is a "certification of birth," not a "certificate of birth."

Recently FactCheck representatives got a chance to spend some time with the birth certificate, and we can attest to the fact that it is real and three-dimensional and resides at the Obama headquarters in Chicago. We can assure readers that the certificate does bear a raised seal, and that it's stamped on the back by Hawaii state registrar Alvin T. Onaka (who uses a signature stamp rather than signing individual birth certificates). We even brought home a few photographs.


The Obama birth certificate, held by FactCheck writer Joe Miller


Alvin T. Onaka's signature stamp


The raised seal


Blowup of text

You can click on the photos to get full-size versions, which haven't been edited in any way, except that some have been rotated 90 degrees for viewing purposes.

The certificate has all the elements the State Department requires for proving citizenship to obtain a U.S. passport: "your full name, the full name of your parent(s), date and place of birth, sex, date the birth record was filed, and the seal or other certification of the official custodian of such records." The names, date and place of birth, and filing date are all evident on the scanned version, and you can see the seal above.

The document is a "certification of birth," also known as a short-form birth certificate. The long form is drawn up by the hospital and includes additional information such as birth weight and parents' hometowns. The short form is printed by the state and draws from a database with fewer details. The Hawaii Department of Health's birth record request form does not give the option to request a photocopy of your long-form birth certificate, but their short form has enough information to be acceptable to the State Department. We tried to ask the Hawaii DOH why they only offer the short form, among other questions, but they have not given a response.

The scan released by the campaign shows halos around the black text, making it look (to some) as though the text might have been pasted on top of an image of security paper. But the document itself has no such halos, nor do the close-up photos we took of it. We conclude that the halo seen in the image produced by the campaign is a digital artifact from the scanning process.

We asked the Obama campaign about the date stamp and the blacked-out certificate number. The certificate is stamped June 2007, because that's when Hawaii officials produced it for the campaign, which requested that document and "all the records we could get our hands on" according to spokesperson Shauna Daly. The campaign didn't release its copy until 2008, after speculation began to appear on the Internet questioning Obama's citizenship. The campaign then rushed to release the document, and the rush is responsible for the blacked-out certificate number. Says Shauna: "[We] couldn't get someone on the phone in Hawaii to tell us whether the number represented some secret information, and we erred on the side of blacking it out. Since then we've found out it's pretty irrelevant for the outside world." The document we looked at did have a certificate number; it is 151 1961 - 010641.


Blowup of certificate number

Some of the conspiracy theories that have circulated about Obama are quite imaginative. One conservative blogger suggested that the campaign might have obtained a valid Hawaii birth certificate, soaked it in solvent, then reprinted it with Obama's information. Of course, this anonymous blogger didn't have access to the actual document and presents this as just one possible "scenario" without any evidence that such a thing actually happened or is even feasible.

We also note that so far none of those questioning the authenticity of the document have produced a shred of evidence that the information on it is incorrect. Instead, some speculate that somehow, maybe, he was born in another country and doesn't meet the Constitution's requirement that the president be a "natural-born citizen."

We think our colleagues at PolitiFact.com, who also dug into some of these loopy theories put it pretty well: "It is possible that Obama conspired his way to the precipice of the world’s biggest job, involving a vast network of people and government agencies over decades of lies. Anything’s possible. But step back and look at the overwhelming evidence to the contrary and your sense of what’s reasonable has to take over."

In fact, the conspiracy would need to be even deeper than our colleagues realized. In late July, a researcher looking to dig up dirt on Obama instead found a birth announcement that had been published in the Honolulu Advertiser on Sunday, Aug. 13, 1961:


Obama's birth announcement


The announcement was posted by a pro-Hillary Clinton blogger who grudgingly concluded that Obama "likely" was born Aug. 4, 1961 in Honolulu.
Of course, it's distantly possible that Obama's grandparents may have planted the announcement just in case their grandson needed to prove his U.S. citizenship in order to run for president someday. We suggest that those who choose to go down that path should first equip themselves with a high-quality tinfoil hat. The evidence is clear: Barack Obama was born in the U.S.A.

Update, August 26: We received responses to some of our questions from the Hawaii Department of Health. They couldn't tell us anything about their security paper, but they did answer another frequently-raised question: why is Obama's father's race listed as "African"? Kurt Tsue at the DOH told us that father's race and mother's race are supplied by the parents, and that "we accept what the parents self identify themselves to be." We consider it reasonable to believe that Barack Obama, Sr., would have thought of and reported himself as "African." It's certainly not the slam dunk some readers have made it out to be.

When we asked about the security borders, which look different from some other examples of Hawaii certifications of live birth, Kurt said "The borders are generated each time a certified copy is printed. A citation located on the bottom left hand corner of the certificate indicates which date the form was revised." He also confirmed that the information in the short form birth certificate is sufficient to prove citizenship for "all reasonable purposes."

–by Jess Henig, with Joe Miller
Sources
United States Department of State. "Application for a U.S. Passport." Accessed 20 Aug. 2008.

State of Hawaii Department of Health. "Request for Certified Copy of Birth Record." Accessed 20 Aug. 2008.

Hollyfield, Amy. "Obama's Birth Certificate: Final Chapter." Politifact.com. 27 Jun. 2008.
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Old 10-25-2008, 04:51 AM   #9
Fiddlerdave
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Notice how there is no logical or reasonable response from the Obama camp here - just ad hominems which indicate they are arguing from a weak and unsupportable position.
Other than an authentic and legal birth certificate showing he was born in the United States, for which there is not a single piece of even marginal evidence or testimony anywhere in the world to doubt it. People can wail about "relatives saying he was born in Kenya" all they want, but those relatives have given numerous interviews to newsmen, their location is well known, and until we get at least the name and organization of the currently COMPLETELY UNKNOWN (and certainly non-existant) person(s) who got this astoundiing information from them that no one else did or will, we can only presume the allegation is a LIE.


That's the REAL problem. It wouldn't take much. But NOT ONE PERSON will go on the record to all this supposed revelations. Not ONE. Even Berg and the other lawsuit mongers won't. They all quote nonexistant 3rd party rumors, they won't even say they have any information at all. But who can blame them, perjury punishment is sometimes severe.

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And finding out after the election will cause a constitutional crisis if he is not a native born US citizen. . . . seems that some may like to see this country go down rather than demand that Obama clear it up now.
Constitutional crisis? Why? Maybe you should read it sometime. If for any reason the president cannot serve or has to resign, the VP becomes president. Doesn't seem real complicated to me.

But it is cleared up. Obama is a citizen, if anyone wants to indicate otherwise, OUR laws, USA laws, say they need to at least indicate a shred of evidence exists otherwise.

The pathetic losers of the Republican Party have nothing, with this as the best they have. They would have hung him high already if they did. Saddled with the wreckage of the complete collapse and violation of every principle of their party, sowing malicious and unsubstantiated rumors is all they have left.

(Plus the terror that exposure of the past 8 years mountain of secrets and abrogation of their leaders' responsibilities to serve the constitution and the people of the United States. Blanket presidential pardons for politicians' exposed crimes would be few and far between.)
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Old 10-25-2008, 06:51 AM   #10
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The pathetic losers of the Republican Party have nothing, with this as the best they have. They would have hung him high already if they did. Saddled with the wreckage of the complete collapse and violation of every principle of their party, sowing malicious and unsubstantiated rumors is all they have left.

(Plus the terror that exposure of the past 8 years mountain of secrets and abrogation of their leaders' responsibilities to serve the constitution and the people of the United States. Blanket presidential pardons for politicians' exposed crimes would be few and far between.)
Don't plan on seeing any of that 8 year mountain of secrets. The Dems will want to keep all that under wraps so they can continue the abuses that serve their interests.

It'll be interesting for sure to see how the Dems undo the abrogation of our Constitution by the Republicans.

Of course I'm not holding my breath. DHS and the Patriot Act are socialist/communist wet dream.
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