Arthritis

[Coyote]

There might be something to the warm climate idea. Some of the articles I've been reading suggest warm, moist heat for relief of the pain. Hot showers and warm, damp towels are often recommended. I do get noticeable, although temporary, relief from a good hot shower.

It's hard to picture this old Yankee moving to a warm climate but who knows. A nice Caribbean island might do the trick. Plenty of hot peppers down there at least...

[lilly]

Have any Y's with hot tubs and saunas in your area? they often have special deals for seniors.( you say you are an old yankee.)

At the Y where I had a limited membership, the men who aren't swimmers with problem joints or backs spend one heck of a lot of time chatting with the women, and either sitting in the hot tub, or with their legs in the tub and sitting on the ledge. They get their socializing and their therapy together. One marathon talker spends an hour chatting with the women.

The changing rooms have saunas for those that like a dry heat. The womens separate from the mens.

[Coyote]

they often have special deals for seniors.

Thanks for reminding me....

At 55 I guess I am a senior.

It's quite a drive to get to a Y or "health club" that has a hot tub but the idea of a good, hot soak sounds wonderful. I'm going to have to work out a way to do it without breaking the bank.

I like water. I've used it as therapy many times, in many ways. A good hot soak sounds so right.

Just don't do it before bed. Or so I am told.

[Susie]

So, Coyote...have you been keeping track of what you eat and when the pain comes?

[drummagick]

Have you tried cutting nightshades out of your diet?

My doc suggested I take glucosamine, but I haven't tried it yet. My arthritis is just starting though, joints stiffening up but not too much pain yet.

[lilly]

I notice my arthritis is weather related. Must be barometric pressure. It isn't all that painful except when I exercise strenuously, so I do gentler exercises to move the synovial fluid around the joints without stressing the joints. I have one finger, only one that is a barometer, but if I massage the middle joint or warm it its not bad..

I used to use hot water bottles at nite or a heating pad for my back during the day, but it stopped being contstantly painful, so pain doesn't always increase.

Sometimes painful areas can improve considerably. Or maybe you get used to a certain level of discomfort and forget it. Or maybe fish oil works. It might be endorphins as I do get around and keep occupied mentaly. Or it could be circulation and keeping your body warmed. Also limiting motions to that which doesn't stress you.

You have to poke around, talk to people, and check out the papers, see what is offered that is free of charge. I just plotted out my March activities,(lectures, etc.) but I don't go to work, so I can pick and choose. Yesterday they had a lecture on skin,and wound healing with a free luncheon which was closed for the snow. Today I could have gone to a luncheon with a financial seminar at a country club, but I didn't bother. Don't want to hear any more on financial matters. No one knows anything anyway, and if they say they do, their nuts.

Considering I shoved ten inches of snow into the road yesterday with no ill effects I must be doing something right. As I wrote I shoved the snow , I didn't lift.

[Coyote]

Have you tried cutting nightshades out of your diet?

I have, about five years ago. I don't really know if it made a difference or not. The arthritis has been worse with each successive x-ray. But that's not to say it wasn't slowed down by the lack of nightshades. It might have been. I just don't know for sure.

Nightshades are implicated in RA more than OA but I have seen them mentioned. A natureopath suggested I go back on a vegetarian diet. Another suggested stopping all alcohol. I must admit that the arthritis started after I went back to eating meat fifteen years ago.

At age forty I was x-rayed from head to toe after an accident and was told as an aside that I had no signs of arthritis. It was suggested that I go back to eating meat to aid in the healing of multiple fractures. Five years later I was having problems with arthritis in my spine.

The medical doctors insist that food has absolutely nothing to do with it.

So, Coyote...have you been keeping track of what you eat and when the pain comes?

Susie, I have been in pain continuously for the past five years. What I eat doesn't real seem to matter but I am keeping more of an eye on it lately. Motion seems to be the problem. The more I work and play the worse it gets.

[lilly]

someone posted something on alkaline and acid foods here. They posted more comprehensively on Curevents.com. It might be worth checking out.

If you are in pain, you've got to figure out what helps and what doesn't. I think we all are different, and what works for one may not work for someone else.

I go through phases, and try this, that and the other thing, but am not really sure what really helps. It is all so subjective.

They must have some blogs for arthritis sufferors to link up with. Haven't looked myself. As I pretty much seem not to be deteriorating.

Can't say I'm improving, but I think 20 pounds off would probably make a difference for both me and Susie. Walking is considered to be the very best exercise. I always feel better when I'm not carrying extra pounds.

Coyote seems very physically active, and probably doesn't pack any extra weight. Of course his facets on his spine may be damaged, with compression. Only the orthopedist and radiologists can interpret the Xrays which will show the extent of the deterioration.

Well I'm off to the Y, and then to Tai Chi.

Whatever works.

[blue gecko]

Here's a technique that can give you relief from specific joint pain. It's called synovial pumping. Find the tender spot in the affected joint. Apply pressure gently then ease the pressure then press in again. Repeat this several times. Often times this will balance the pressure of synovial fluid within the joint and the pain will decrease considerably.

If you can find a therapist who specializes in myofacial release (look for someone who has Rolfing experience) they may be able to release adhesions in the facia and increase mobility. When the facia adheres to itself whether do to injury, inflammation or surgery the movement of the muscles can be restricted. This can cause specific irritation to the muscle attachments. Often this means the joint becomes irritated. Once the joint becomes irritated and inflammed then the body begins to respond and the tissue becomes the target for healing, immune response and the laying down of scar tissue.

Releasing the facia gives the muscles "space" and more freedom of normal movement. The pressure is taken off the joints and with specific, purposeful exercise the muscles can be worked into normal and balanced kinetic movement. That balancing corrects any misalignment in the joint itself so that proper articulation can take place. It's not a "cure" for arthritis but may provide relief from some of the pain.

Heating the tissue softens the facia and allows it to stretch and make some room for better movement. Thats why hot tubs and heating pads help. However, if you heat the tissue then allow it to cool in a shortened position i.e. going to bed right after a hot bath, then the tissue will cool down and stiffen in what ever position you are sleeping. The end result can be an increase in odd adhesions that restrict muscle movement and therefore increase the pressure on the attachments and joints.

[SusyTX]

I can vouch for avoiding Coke, from personal experience. I can't explain what it is, but it does affect mild arthritis in my thumbs. I've stopped and started Coke probably 20 times in the past 9 months, intentionally, to see if there's a change, and each time I stop drinking it the pain in my thumbs subsides. When I start drinking it again the pain returns, often within a few hours.

At 54 and working a small cattle ranch on weekends, mending fences, clearing brush by hand, lifting hay bales, etc., then typing daily during the workweek, I can work a solid 8-10 hrs a day and feel no pain in my thumbs if I'm not drinking Cokes...start drinking them again and my thumbs are stiff and sore in short order.

Very strange....on the flip side, I can often avoid a migraine by drinking a Coke. Lesser of two evils, I guess...

[spinnerholic]

Coyote, I'm seeing a pain specialist - Osteopathic Pain Management - for severe chronic pain. Sounds rather hair raising, but he gives me shots in my spine and in the nerve bundles that come out of it. The painful condition remains, but the nerves that carry pain to the brain are deadened. Talk about sheer heavenly relief!!

Take some time and find a ~good~ doc, tho.

Good luck and God bless.

[Coyote]

Susy, I've read that refined sugar can bring on arthritis and also gout (which is a form of arthritis). Maybe that's gout in your thumbs.

I've heard folks say that soda helps ward off a migraine. I think it's supposed to be the caffeine that helps.

Spinnerholic, I've been offered cortisone injections several times but have turned them down. I'm active enough that I need to be able to feel what's going on to reduce the chances of even more injuries.

I have a rather adversarial relationship with my doctor and have thought about finding a new one for years but inertia has always got the best of me. He's a bit of a control freak and gets upset when I don't do what he orders me to do (and he does order me to do and not do things). He has classified me as "obstinate and defiant". He even wrote it in my medical record.

But he's starting to come around.

btw, I want to thank lilly for pointing out that acid/alkaline info over at CE. Very interesting and something I'm looking into further.

[lilly]

There is a fasting cure used in Sweden. Effective for some people.

The book "There is a cure for Arthritis." Paavo O Airola.

published 1968.

[lilly]

As I got out of my car this morning I heard that a 20 year study on Gout showed a 45% reduction for those men in the largest study ever made, when they took 1500mg of Vitamin C. Those who took less had less releif. AM considering extra Vit. C.

Now I have one finger with one middle joint that seems to act as a weather barometer, and I have always suspected it is a very mild gout. My right hand, so while I write long hand, I am switching over to the computer. But I'm turning off the computer and abandoning the net to spend more time with events which are meaningful to me,and exercise now that the weather is milder.

I don't like politics, so I am concentrating on pleasant people in pleasant situations. LIfe is too short for infighting over issues that don't interest me in the least. Plus my blood pressure is nice and low now, and I want to keep it low.

Don't use diuretics"cause that one joint acts up if the weather turns damp. I have been considering using one of those loose polartec type gloves to keep the hand warm in wet weather when sleeping.

I wonder about extra Vit. C for arthritis, This morning I talked to a lot of people with arthritis , they didn't come up with anything of interest that is new. One woman has a artificial knee, another will be getting one soon. So many women here have artificial hips and knees, but I would prefer not being one of them.

Another woman who has had arthritis since college 40 years ago uses Zyflamend, which I used years ago and liked. It is an herbal suppliment. It has Holy Basil, Tumeric, ginger Oregano, scutellaria, Hu Zhang, Rosemary and Green tea in it. I used it before the Cox 2 inhibiters came in, then used the Celebrex prescription pills, till I read of heart issues and stopped before the brouha ha began and they stopped it, with people suing right and left. But I never returned to the Zyflamend, and I think it can be useful. I prefer herbs over pain pills, aspirin or prescription items, which I'm leery of using..

Might as well have something with the spring showers we are getting. Though I had an exercise class this morning during a light spring rain, and nothing is acheing. So I'm doing something right. It might be the Jin Shin Jytsu acting as endorphans.

Personaly I think warmth is a key element to remaining comfortable at nite. And I think once a week I will have a fast day with plain lemonade. Lent is traditionally a time of cleansing, and I wonder if the viruses going around don't help people by acting as a spring cleanse, getting rid of a lot of toxins accumulated over the winter.

[lilly]

While no one else is posting on arthritis and how to keep it at bay. I'll mention yoga. Missed my water exercise this morning, but did some chair yoga last nite while others with mats and towels did floor yoga. Anyone interested in movement should try chair yoga. Simple stretches with emphasis on breathing deeply. People tend to breathe too shallowly. One of the nicest things yesterday was simply resting in the dark at the end, with everyone breathing out OMMMMMMMMM.

The simplest of arm and bending movements in that you are stretching, twisting the torso and neck is good for the joints. I intend to do simple chair yoga, and when I'm a bit more limber, go on to easier floor yoga.exercises.

It is so very easy to do nothing, and deteriorate as you get older. I prefer to keep active.

[lilly]

The Mind Body Connection /John Sarno.

Read this many years ago, gave it to my nephew, but for those with back issues it might be of some use.

[Ought Six]

Arthritis is a degeneration of the joints, leading to inflammation, calcification and pain. There are several types of arthritis. The most common is osteoarthritis, which is usually caused by damage to the cartilage of the joint from an injury or excessive wear. Septic arthritis is caused by an infection in the joint. Rheumatoid arthritis is an autoimmune disease, where a hyperactive immune system starts attacking and destroying the joints.

The first thing that you must realize is that your battle is going to be frustrating. What works for some does not work for others. You will have to try different things, and find out what works for you. This can get tiresome, and it is easy to get discouraged, but you must be persistent in this. If you give up, you are consigning yourself to watching your mobility disappear.

One of the primary mechanisms of all types of arthritis is inflammation. In the early stages, this is the source of all the pain. Ongoing serious inflammation is what damages the cartilage in the joint. While treating inflammation is treating a symptom, not the disease, it is still critical. By reducing inflammation, you are slowing down the degeneration of your joints. This buys you time, and gives your joints a chance to heal. There are several ways to fight joint inflammation.

First, there is the anti-inflammitory diet. Avoid vegetables from the nightshade family; eggplant, tomatoes, potatoes and chili peppers. They contain an alkaloid called solanine, which increases inflammation. Avoid excessive amounts of saturated fats and refined sugars. Eat foods high in antioxidants and Omega-3 fatty acids. Green leafy veggies, whole grains and fish are great.

Second, there are anti-inflammitory agents. Naprosyn (Aleve), asprin and ibuprophen (Advil, Motrin) are OTC anti-inflammitories. If you are having a particularly bad bout of pain and need a pain killer, use one of these. Do not take them daily, as overuse can cause kidney problems. Acetominophen (Tylenol) is not an anti-inflammitory. The best natural anti-inflammitory agent that seems to work for the most people is MSM. You can find this in any heath food or vitamin store, and it is not expensive. I strongly recommend that you take at least 500 mgs. twice a day. Another great herb to treat inflammation is arnica. I recommend using a product called Traumeel, a German-made homeopathic product. Get both the creme and tablets, and use them in conjunction when you are experiencing a lot of pain. Even my regular MD recommended arnica to me, unaware that I already had been using it for years. Salmon oil is also both anti-inflammitory and a great source of Omega-3 fatty acids, both of which are helpful. You can get it in gelcaps or as a straight liquid oil.

Third, there are joint rebuilding substances. The best known are chondrotin and glucosamine, which provide the basic building blocks to grow new cartilage. What I recommend is that you take shark cartilage. It is a great natural source of both of these substances. It is also a natural anti-inflammitory and anti-cancer agent. It is also a source of gelatin, which also helps the body build cartilage.

Fourth, there is enzyme therapies. These help dissolve scar tissue, restoring mobility to damaged joints and clearing the way for new, healthy cartilage to grow. I just started taking a product I have seen recommended from a number of sources called Wobenzyme N.

Fifth is decalcification. Take magnesium! It will help prevent calcium deposits from forming in damaged joints, as well as giving you a number of other health benefits. Magnesium citrate is supposed to be the best form to take.

Sixth is physical therapy. I have become a huge proponent of theraputic massage. It has literally turned my life around. I was in constant pain and had extremely limited range of motion, along with numbness in my hands when I did any significant amount of work with them. Massage therapy cured me in a few sessions. I have since talked to a number of people who have reported similar experiences with a wide range of problems, including arthritis. You must find a good practitioner, though. If it is being done right, massage is very uncomfortable; even painful. They must dig down into the muscles to get at trigger points, adhesions and irritated tendons. By doing this, the tension on the joints from muscles and tendons is reduced and made even, greatly reducing the stress on tender, damaged joints. I cannot emphasize how much this helps.

Seventh is exercise; especially stretching. I have been given a regimen of stretching exercises by my massage therapist that has really helped me. Arthritic joints need to be worked to force out fluid buildup and to preserve and increase range of motion and internal lubricity. This is critically important. If you just sit on the couch all day, your joints will deteriorate and lock up, and then you will truly screwed. Even if you just walk, you must exercise and work those joints, no matter how much it hurts. Yoga was mentioned, and that is an excellent choice. Whatever you do, make sure it is low- or no-impact, and if do warm-up stretches first to avoid injuries. Exercising and eating right will also help you lose weight. Obviously, lugging around a few dozen extra pounds wherever you go is going to stress all your joints that much more.

Eighth is ergonomics. Sit in a decent chair. Bad furniture is going to cause muscle tension, which means more tension on your joints. Until I got decent furniture and got rid of my garage sale hand-me-down crap, I had no idea how much difference it makes. Get a good bed. You spend a quarter to a third of your life in bed. A bad bed will mess up your whole body. Get a body length sleep pillow; two is even better. When sleeping on your side, flop your top arm and leg over the sleep pillow. This keeps your hips straight and your spine aligned, reducing stress on the hip joints, spine, and shoulders. Get an ergonomic pillow for your head as well, to properly support your neck. You will wake up feeling far less screwed up. This works really well for me. Do not lean forward constantly to peer into your computer monitor. I am really trying hard to break this habit. It messes up your neck. Pay attention to your posture when you walk. Good posture again means less stress on the joints. Wear good shoes, and use orthopedic cushion inserts in them. Again, less stress on the whole body.

Ninth is 'ice and fire'. Heat and cold will help greatly with painful, inflammed joints. Start with ice. Gel-type cold packs work best, because you can form them around joints. It draws the fluid out of inflammed tissues. Follow with heat (a long hot bath, jacuzzi, heating pad or hot pack), which relaxes tension and promotes healing.

Last is persistence. I know I already said this, but you have to remain resolute and keep after it. Do not forget to take your supplements or get lazy and stop exercising. This is a battle that you must continually fight to win.

To get the Traumeel and Wobenzyme M, I recommend the Vitamin Shoppe. They have both stores and a website. I found them to have the best prices on these products.

http://www.vitaminshoppe.com/

For other supplements, I recommend Swanson Health Products. They have great quality and great prices. I get most of my supplements from them.

http://www.swansonvitamins.com/

I hope this helps.

[blue gecko]

Nicely put Ought! Thank you.

Ninth is 'ice and fire'. Heat and cold will help greatly with painful, inflammed joints. Start with ice. Gel-type cold packs work best, because you can form them around joints. It draws the fluid out of inflammed tissues. Follow with heat (a long hot bath, jacuzzi, heating pad or hot pack), which relaxes tension and promotes healing.

Comments on this: When you apply heat to inflammed tissues the facia softens. As it cools it becomes less flexible and stiffens in that position. For my clients, I recommend heat and ice as contrast therapy but always either end in ice or stretch and cool down thoroughly before prolonged sitting or going to bed. If your tissues are warm and soft then you shorten them by curling up in bed they will become stiff in the shortened, curled up position and you'll make matters worse.

The best thing IMO is to take that warm bath then do some basic Yoga/stretching as you cool.

[kanuck57]

The Denver Post,
Friday September 24, 1993
Chicken Protein halts swelling, pain of arthritis patients in trial
http://www.american-longevity.com/denverpost.htm

WASHINGTON - A protein from chicken bones stopped the pain and swelling of rheumatoid arthritis for patients in a clinical experiment, and experts say the novel treatment holds promise for control of the crippling disease.

Dr. David Trentham, of Beth Israel hospital and Harvard Medical School in Boston, said that a collagen solution made from chicken cartilage and swirled into patients' morning orange juice appeared to arrest the progress of rheumatoid arthritis in a small group that was studied.

The technique, which he called "oral tolerization", seems to "teach" the body to stop inflaming the tissue around joints. Rheumatoid arthritis is thought to be an autoimmune disease caused by rogue cells of the imune system attacking membranes in joints.

Trentham said that swallowing protein that is similar to the membrane of the joints "reinstructs the body to cease the attack on the body's own joints".

All 28 patients taking the collagen during the three-month trial got relief from their disease and four went into remission, said Trentham. The disease became worse in 31 patients who received a placebo..

A report on the study is to be published today in the journal Science.

Dr. Arthur Grayzel, senior vice president for medical affairs of the Arthritis Foundation, said he was quite encouraged by the study and believes oral tolerization techniques have the potential of halting rheumatoid arthritis. But he cautioned that a much larger trial of the collagen treatment should be undertaken.

The study used 60 rheumatoid arthritis patients selected from a group who had not responded well to conventional treatment.

A group of 28 were given daily solutions of what is called type II collagen derived from chickens.

"It is purified from chicken simply because that is the least expensive way of making it, and we can be sure it is free of viral contaminants," said Trentham.

After three months, it was clear that the drug was beneficial.

Researchers cautioned that the collagen used in the experiment is not the same as the collagen found in cosmetic and health food stores." (Note:The chicken protein compound mentioned in the news article has been patented, and is not generally available.)





Full Text of Harvard Study
"Effects of Oral Administration of
Type II Collagen on Rheumatoid Arthritis"
Study performed by David E. Trentham, Roselynn A. Dynesius-Trentham, E. John Orav, Daniel Combitchi, Carlos Lorenzo, Kathryn Lea Sewell, David A. Hafler, Howard L. Weiner
Published in the prestigious journal Science September 24, 1993
http://www.healingwithnutrition.com/...dstudy.html#A2



.

[Ought Six]

bg:

"When you apply heat to inflammed tissues the facia softens. As it cools it becomes less flexible and stiffens in that position. For my clients, I recommend heat and ice as contrast therapy but always either end in ice or stretch and cool down thoroughly before prolonged sitting or going to bed. If your tissues are warm and soft then you shorten them by curling up in bed they will become stiff in the shortened, curled up position and you'll make matters worse. The best thing IMO is to take that warm bath then do some basic Yoga/stretching as you cool."

Interesting. Thanks!

[drummagick]

For anyone who is going to try turmeric for inflammation, black pepper will increase the bioavailabiity of curcumin, which is the anti-inflammatory ingredient in turmeric. Actually, it's 'piperine' in black pepper that achieves this.

I was taking this product for a couple years after a breast cancer diagnosis.

http://www.lef.org/Vitamins-Suppleme...Bioperine.html


I picked up my first bottle of glucosamine today hoping that it will work for me. I am in the very early stages of arthritis, hopefully I can take care of this early enough that I won't get too bad. I saw my doctor last week and she wants me to have blood tests to see if the type I am getting is RA. I guess I have some of the symptoms.

[Coyote]

Good luck, drummagick. I wish I had paid better attention early on. I think you'll be benefited by any steps you take now.

Just as an update, I started taking three grams of vitamin C per day, some omega-3's, shark cartilage and about a quart every three days of organic cherry juice. The effect has been noticeable.

A few months of hauling lobster traps and tapping maple trees had inflamed every sore spot on my body. The anti inflammatory regimen has been helpful.

The doc gave me a prescription for unlimited physical therapy and I have been making good use of it. I have two therapists who are taking a team approach at loosening me up and getting my body working more in balance. It's only been a few weeks but I'm really liking this. Nothing like hands on healing.

[drummagick]

I've been taking glucosamine/chondroitin and fish oil twice a day for a couple weeks now and I think it may be helping a bit. I seem to be a little less stiff in the hands on waking in the morning.

[Feather]

I discovered that if I take my meds correctly I feel better. New dr changed the meds and dummy me didn't read the label all the way. I have been taking one a day instead of two and wondering why I feel so bad. DUH!

I am now taking them like I should and am feeling a bit better already. I tried fish oil and glucosamine/chondroitin but did not notice any changes after six months so I went back to a script along with them.

It is a good feeling when you go to a new dr and after they look at your x-rays they ask - "are you still working?" then they are surprised ti find out that I work full time. Loved the look from the guy.

[drummagick]

What kind of arthritis do you have, feather? What are they giving you for it?


I used to smile over hearing an older person say they could tell it was going to rain because their joints were stiffening up.

Since I made that post earlier, a rainy weather system has come in and my hands have stiffened up.

I am that weather forecasting old lady now I guess. lol