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Old 05-04-2010, 09:27 PM   #26
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Silver market manipulation by JP Morgan (alleged).
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Old 05-04-2010, 09:28 PM   #27
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What happens if you blow the whistle on market manipulation (alleged).
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Old 05-05-2010, 02:58 AM   #28
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I absolutely believe that both the gold and silver markets are being heavily manipulated... to keep the price of PMs as incredibly low as they are. The Fed have been 'printing' electronic 'money' like it was toilet paper, just electronic 'gold' and 'silver' have been created out of thin air. If the dollar were allowed to sink to its true unmanipulated price in relation to the true value of PMs, it would be next to worthless and the entire global economic system would come tumbling down.
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Old 05-05-2010, 09:10 PM   #29
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Has anyone bought silver on ebay? If so, what was your experience?

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Old 05-05-2010, 09:27 PM   #30
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Be *very* careful. Pay close attention to buyer ratings. Make sure you know the difference between Troy ounces and regular (avoirdupois) ounces. Silver should be in Troy ounces and Troy pounds.
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Old 05-05-2010, 10:08 PM   #31
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Greta, you have a PM.
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Old 05-05-2010, 10:23 PM   #32
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Got it. Thanks!
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Old 05-05-2010, 10:51 PM   #33
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My thoughts are to use one of the coin calculators on-line to calculate the silver value of a coin in dollars. If I can purchase that coin(s), including shipping, for the spot value of silver at the time, then that is a pretty good deal. Yes? No?
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Old 05-06-2010, 02:19 AM   #34
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There is not a chance in hell you are going to be purchasing silver at spot price. If you are lucky, you will pay around 12% over spot. And buying from eBay, you are going to have to pay shipping. Silver is heavy, and you will want to insure your package. This is not cheap. This is why buying directly from a reputable local coin shop is much better.

BTW, keep in mind that 'junk' silver coins are not pure silver. You have to work out the percentage of silver in the coins and do the math. And again, Troy ounces, not regular ounces when figuring out how much ASW (actual silver weight). I find it easiest to just weigh junk silver in grams, and then covert to Troy ounces, instead of trying to convert from regular to Troy ounces. A Troy ounce is 31.1 grams. A regular ounce is 28.3 grams.
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Old 05-06-2010, 06:02 PM   #35
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There is not a chance in hell you are going to be purchasing silver at spot price.
I would have to disagree with you on that. I have been looking around on ebay and watching what some things are selling for. There are some sellers letting it go for close to (or slightly above spot) on junk silver.
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Old 05-06-2010, 06:16 PM   #36
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I think you are misunderstanding the situation. When you buy junk coins at spot, they get you in several ways.

- 'Junk' coins are not pure silver. Their actual silver content varies from 35-90% (the most common values being 40% and 90%), so if you are paying spot price for mixed junk silver coins by weight, you are actually paying a huge markup.

- They may sell you the coins measured in regular, instead of Troy ounces. That means instead of getting the correct 31.1 grams per ounce, you are getting only 28.4 grams per ounce.

- eBay sellers make a lot of money off of 'shipping and handling' charges. Their s&h costs are far lower than what they are charging you.

So if you think you are actually getting full Troy ounces of actual pure silver by weight for spot price, I think that you are very much mistaken. That would mean that the seller would be losing money on the deal; a lot of it.
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Old 05-06-2010, 06:26 PM   #37
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I am plugging the values in a silver coin calculator to get the value of silver in dollars. I agree, it is tough to find those good buys but not impossible. Perhaps it may take some patience. I started selling some stuff on ebay so I have some money in my paypal account that I don't know what to do with so I thought about buying some silver on ebay.

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Old 05-06-2010, 06:35 PM   #38
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If, with all that info and your silver value calculator, you still find a good price, then go ahead and jump on it *IF* the seller has a good rating. Avoid 'too good to be true' deals from sellers with bad or no seller ratings like the plague.
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Old 05-06-2010, 06:52 PM   #39
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Yeah, I read on a precious metals forum where some people said they have gotten boxes with nothing in them when ordering coins from ebay. So I plan to very cautious. Most importantly, I am not going to spend too much with any one seller at first, until I can trust them. From what I understand, there is a way to recuperate your money if you get ripped off on ebay, but it is a long and drawn out process.
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Old 05-06-2010, 07:26 PM   #40
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If you only make small purchases, you are going to get hosed on shipping. If the seller has a good rating and has been on eBay for several years, I would not worry about it too much.

Just out of curiosity, why are you not going to a coin shop?
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Old 05-06-2010, 07:42 PM   #41
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Just out of curiosity, why are you not going to a coin shop?
One of the local guys that I have bought from once never has anything that I am looking for. Also, I am not quite sure that I totally trust him. On his website, I noticed some information that was obviously wrong. Perhaps it was a typo, I am not sure. For me to notice that, as a beginner, kind of set off a red flag. Also, I kind of like the ebay atmosphere with no pressure to buy. There is one other shop locally that I know of that might try.
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Old 05-06-2010, 07:47 PM   #42
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That is unfortunate. The shop I go to does not pressure anyone in any way, unless you consider being served free coffee, sodas and cookies 'pressure'. The owner and staff have been in business for over 30 years, and are incredibly knowledgeable and totally honest.

Last time I went in, they were somewhat shocked when I gave them a tub of dark chocolate-covered almonds. They have always been so cool to me, I felt compelled to give them a small token of appreciation.
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Old 05-06-2010, 10:15 PM   #43
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That's really nice, Ought. I wish I could find a coin shop like that here. The last one I was in practically chased me out the door when I revealed I was looking for PM's other than 1 oz gold coins.
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Old 05-07-2010, 12:53 PM   #44
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Although I've not yet bought from them, the site I use for a "real-life" junk silver price reference is Apmex:
http://www.apmex.com/Category/17/90_...eric_Bags.aspx

Back several years ago, I picked up around $300 face in junk silver US coins, mostly 90% (pre-1965 10c, 25c, 50c, $1 coins), 40% is limited to 1965-1969 halves. I bought almost all of them in small lots on eBay, a very few very small purchases on the old Yahoo auction system. In all cases, I received exactly what was listed and what I expected. I never bought from any listings stating weight of silver, I went by face value; presently a "fair" price for 90% silver coins looks to be around $13.00 per $1 face value, neglecting S&H fees.

It is correct that you have to watch S&H charges like a hawk. It appears to me that presently on eBay, somewhat larger players put in bids on moderate to larger lots (like $100 cost upwards) that peg right up to Apmex's going prices.

If I were to buy more at present, I think I would wind up doing it in one of two general ways: 1) eBay, by spending considerable time looking over rather small lots of coins, like ones of 5 quarters, 7 halves, 25 dimes, etc, if all of pre-1965 and well-circulated and common mint marks so no premium being expected; within that subset, I'd click on the seller's further listing to see if there were a series of similar lots offered and if *combined shipping* were not offered, I'd PM the seller and ask what he could do. USPS flat-rate boxes are in the $5-$10 range for a size volume that could handle any sane combined purchase, so you look for sellers who will encourage your bidding on multiple listings by replying they'll combine like this and not charge $3 or whatever over and over for a series of small coin groups. Your BEST find would be a seller with a number of such coin groups expiring within a couple of days who agreed to combine but had foolishly NOT listed such terms in each of the listings. Then, you'd get to bid with special knowledge of reduced overhead costs and could figure: "If I win five of these groups, my S&H will be $1 each and not $3, so I may be able to win at 50c above a high bid that figures lot cost + $3= $12.75/$1 face net cost." Time is money, it takes time and effort to get costs down playing that strategy, but you can save money doing it. Some sellers might give a small discount for a personal check or money order to avoid the PayPal fees, too, but it's a bit tough to take the time to fiddle with that, many sellers look at PayPal as sufficiently more safe that the fee is justified.

2) I might try to "play" the Apmex site trying to time the silver market, for example possibly buying a moderately large lot from them, like $500 face for $6500 at present, by phoning them if I saw the silver PM market price take a real dip, like several percent, or ten percent, or whatever, possibly in response to some hedge fund having to liquidate a major PM holding to raise capital to cover other market losses. Earlier this morning might've been one of those times, in fact, since I see the silver spot has gone UP about 5% since I started typing this, lol.
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Old 05-08-2010, 10:31 AM   #45
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I recently learned about junk silver while posting on another forum. This man pointed out that specific coins dated before a certain time were actually made of silver. I thought to myself that explains why a 1934 quarter I have kept getting rejected in the grocery store machine.
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Old 05-09-2010, 04:55 PM   #46
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Quote:
Civil And Criminal Probes Launched Against JP Morgan For Silver Market Manipulation
Tyler Durden's picture
Submitted by Tyler Durden on 05/09/2010 07:25 -0500

Yes, it is really happening. After years and years and years of market manipulation, JPMorgan is about to realize there is only so far you can push your luck against the criminal envelope. In other news, when silver doubles shortly, Andrew Maguire is about to become a patron saint to generations of long-suffering gold and silver "bugs" the world throughout.

From Michael Gray of the NY Post.

Quote:
Federal agents have launched parallel criminal and civil probes of JPMorgan Chase and its trading activity in the precious metals market, The Post has learned.
( article truncated for copyright by Ross ) ...
Article copied with thanks from the zerohedge website .


Obviously this action may have a very positive impact on the price of silver and possibly gold .

Possibly suggesting TPTB recognise the price is going up in an unstoppable way
and cannot be controlled via short selling without incurring untenable losses.
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Last edited by Ross; 05-09-2010 at 05:40 PM.
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Old 05-09-2010, 05:04 PM   #47
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Arrow URL to the above article....

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/civ...t-manipulation
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Old 05-09-2010, 05:24 PM   #48
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Article copied with thanks from the zerohedge website
Ross, just checking to be sure you got permission to republish this article here... if not would you please edit so it just shows the link please.
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Old 05-09-2010, 05:39 PM   #49
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The cynic in me says this move is to take pressure off the Central banks in their
attempts to control the gold price .

Speculators will now focus on the silver market knowing that
rapid up moves are possible and likely .



FB
For safety I have deleted most of the NYT component .
I do not think ZH care about protection their work , I have seen
no copyright warnings .
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Last edited by Ross; 05-09-2010 at 05:45 PM.
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Old 05-09-2010, 06:33 PM   #50
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Right at the bottom of the page:
Quote:
copyright ©2009, 2010 zero hedge - limited reproduction (with attribution) permitted by request {emphasis mine -- OS}
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