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Old 05-07-2011, 12:47 AM   #176
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Just a thought, but one of the reasons the Hunt Brothers in 1980 didn't get out of market when they had made a 3.5 billion in profit...probably less as their selling would have forced the price downward...was because they hadn't figured out a way to deal with the taxman.

If we own physical and aren't dealing with the big bullion houses with credit cards and personal data...it should be easy to avoid the tax consequences; but of course, that would be illegal and no one should consider such a course of action.

"Mihir Dange, trader at Arbitrage, believes that silver isn't at a top. "Now that it has retraced about 25% and we have seen the weak longs exit the market, I like silver to rally." Dange thinks the long term silver:gold ratio should be between 25 and 30 to 1. "My year-end projection in gold is $1,625-$1,675 and if we take an average of $1,650 in gold and an average relationship of 27.5:1 that puts silver at $60."


The one area that is suffering even more than the silver price devaluation, is silver stocks. Global X Silver Miners(SIL_) is down more than 8% from April onwards despite the fact that the silver price has risen as much as 31% to its high, but is now relatively flat."

The top five U.S. publically traded silver stocks in the ETF have fallen even further than the SIL from April to present. Coeur D'Alene Mines(CDE_) is down 16.74%, Silver Wheaton(SLW_) has lost 13.31%, Pan American Silver(PAAS_) is down 6.5%, Silvercorp(SVM_) has lost more than 19% and First Majestic Silver(AG_) has dropped 15.29%.http://www.thestreet.com/story/11105...es-topped.html

Silver Wheaton is an interesting company...it doesn't own mines or refineries, but it has purchased contracts to pay a very low price (now considered) for silver from years earlier. In other words it has silver coming in deliveries when the purchase price was in the single digits.
Most of the low to medium cap mining stocks are now very low...having taken the hit from the latest plunge in silver prices, but most had not caught up to the recent run up in silver prices...thus they are really, probably, much undervalued. When silver and gold again marches upward, these stocks will really sky rocket.

For those with a few hundred bucks to invest, these companies could pay for much more than physical silver in a bullish environment. And as metals and commodities are still fundamentally sound investments...despite the pull back (which is really very, very good...or with an accent, "berry, berry, good" (my trip to Asia in the Army) these may be worth a look. The Canadian mining small cap mining stocks are really appealing.

But I am not an investment expert...spent most of my life spending as fast as I could. But for sake of my younger wife and family am looking very closely at things, which before I had no interest.

Very good advice, which I have gleaned, is to have a good position in core assets...these could be in our IRA or 401K, or physical (the best) and never sell the core investments in hopes of buying them later at a cheaper price. Chances are that we would be locked out by rising prices. Murphy's Rule. Keep the core no matter what and speculate with the remainder. Eric Sprott, a major wheeler dealer in Canada gave the recent by example...once the investment reaches 100% from you buy in point. Pull 50% of it out, that is sell it and get cash in your hands. Let the other 50% continue to take any chances the investment will continue to climb. If your wrong, at least you have something to show for your troubles, and sell at the 50% down trend...earlier if you feel like it. That way you have the money to trade another day. Not bad advice to us with no real trading expertness and not enough capital to learn the hard way.

Take it from me, never get into day trading and never enter leveraged (future markets) with money you cannot easily afford to lose. It is easier to win at lo-ball or poker at the local club than to win in the big leveraged markets. And you will have more fun. In Lost Vagus, you at least can get a meal and bus ticket home...in the markets...you loose and get nothing but your lose. So be careful.

What a wonderful country, it forces the old, the savers, into gambling in order to keep the purchasing power of what is rightfully theres.
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Last edited by usda; 05-07-2011 at 02:32 AM. Reason: additions
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Old 05-07-2011, 10:25 AM   #177
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I found your number on the wall, Jenny..,
I wondered if anyone was going to pick this up.
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Old 05-08-2011, 12:30 PM   #178
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I just saw this from the other day. Peter Schiff is commenting about what has been happening in the silver market, among other things as well.

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Old 05-08-2011, 03:27 PM   #179
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I wondered if anyone was going to pick this up.
I was he, he, he..,

Not a comment you would think you'd find in an investing thread.
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Old 05-09-2011, 04:54 AM   #180
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It looks like Peter Schiff called it pretty well.
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Old 05-09-2011, 08:25 PM   #181
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usda View Post
Just a thought, but one of the reasons the Hunt Brothers in 1980 didn't get out of market when they had made a 3.5 billion in profit...probably less as their selling would have forced the price downward...was because they hadn't figured out a way to deal with the taxman.

If we own physical and aren't dealing with the big bullion houses with credit cards and personal data...it should be easy to avoid the tax consequences; but of course, that would be illegal and no one should consider such a course of action.

"Mihir Dange, trader at Arbitrage, believes that silver isn't at a top. "Now that it has retraced about 25% and we have seen the weak longs exit the market, I like silver to rally." Dange thinks the long term silver:gold ratio should be between 25 and 30 to 1. "My year-end projection in gold is $1,625-$1,675 and if we take an average of $1,650 in gold and an average relationship of 27.5:1 that puts silver at $60."
Sounds reasonable. But I am not sure why he thinks the longtime historical ratio of 16:1 is now no longer valid.
----------
Quote:
The one area that is suffering even more than the silver price devaluation, is silver stocks. Global X Silver Miners(SIL_) is down more than 8% from April onwards despite the fact that the silver price has risen as much as 31% to its high, but is now relatively flat."

The top five U.S. publically traded silver stocks in the ETF have fallen even further than the SIL from April to present. Coeur D'Alene Mines(CDE_) is down 16.74%, Silver Wheaton(SLW_) has lost 13.31%, Pan American Silver(PAAS_) is down 6.5%, Silvercorp(SVM_) has lost more than 19% and First Majestic Silver(AG_) has dropped 15.29%.http://www.thestreet.com/story/11105...es-topped.html

Silver Wheaton is an interesting company...it doesn't own mines or refineries, but it has purchased contracts to pay a very low price (now considered) for silver from years earlier. In other words it has silver coming in deliveries when the purchase price was in the single digits.
I own a little Silver Wheaton. They have a great business model. They negotiate contracts for physical silver from refineries who produce silver as a byproduduct, such as copper and lead refiners.
----------
Quote:
Most of the low to medium cap mining stocks are now very low...having taken the hit from the latest plunge in silver prices, but most had not caught up to the recent run up in silver prices...thus they are really, probably, much undervalued. When silver and gold again marches upward, these stocks will really sky rocket.

For those with a few hundred bucks to invest, these companies could pay for much more than physical silver in a bullish environment. And as metals and commodities are still fundamentally sound investments...despite the pull back (which is really very, very good...or with an accent, "berry, berry, good" (my trip to Asia in the Army) these may be worth a look. The Canadian mining small cap mining stocks are really appealing.
I am quite leery of mining stocks. They are quite high-risk, and you really need to know what you are doing with them. Serious research is required.
----------
Quote:
But I am not an investment expert...spent most of my life spending as fast as I could. But for sake of my younger wife and family am looking very closely at things, which before I had no interest.

Very good advice, which I have gleaned, is to have a good position in core assets...these could be in our IRA or 401K, or physical (the best) and never sell the core investments in hopes of buying them later at a cheaper price. Chances are that we would be locked out by rising prices. Murphy's Rule. Keep the core no matter what and speculate with the remainder. Eric Sprott, a major wheeler dealer in Canada gave the recent by example...once the investment reaches 100% from you buy in point. Pull 50% of it out, that is sell it and get cash in your hands. Let the other 50% continue to take any chances the investment will continue to climb. If your wrong, at least you have something to show for your troubles, and sell at the 50% down trend...earlier if you feel like it. That way you have the money to trade another day. Not bad advice to us with no real trading expertness and not enough capital to learn the hard way.

Take it from me, never get into day trading and never enter leveraged (future markets) with money you cannot easily afford to lose. It is easier to win at lo-ball or poker at the local club than to win in the big leveraged markets. And you will have more fun. In Lost Vagus, you at least can get a meal and bus ticket home...in the markets...you loose and get nothing but your lose. So be careful.

What a wonderful country, it forces the old, the savers, into gambling in order to keep the purchasing power of what is rightfully theres.
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Old 05-12-2011, 10:53 AM   #182
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It is a good thing I held out on buying more silver. The price is still falling. I am in no big hurry, and I have the patience to wait.

Last edited by Greta; 05-12-2011 at 11:04 AM.
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Old 05-13-2011, 01:15 AM   #183
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I have the patience to wait.

Excellent attribute to have. The worry disappears if we aren't in some leveraged investments...and own physical. We have already paid for it, and perhaps, store it, even if in the back yard. Thus we can watch the ups and downs, knowing full well that prices in comparison to the damaged dollar that pm's can only rise in the near future.

It is ok that the market for pm's dip or move sidewise, we just have peace of mind knowing we have some purchasing power stored that cannot be taken away by crooked government policies. Accumulation, that is when we can spare the change, to buy pm's and add to our real savings.

The price we pay at this time is still minuscule compared to its almost certain upside.

If we can add say, ten oz of silver, now and then, we add to our net worth compared with the dollar in the near to far future, as far as can be told. If deflation occurs with full destruction of our way of life...pm's will maintain value and comparably be a store of real value. Dollars may be totally worthless...so how much in terms of silver or gold will a medium piece of house and property will it buy? That will be its value.

Hyperinflation always ends in deflation in that real things retain their value while paper may be worthless...well, not quiet, it can always provide wall paper and toilet paper.

Trying to picks tops and bottoms is a fool's errand...simply chose a buy in point that seems reasonable under the circumstances...you don't need technicals or pricey news letters. Being off a few bucks will not matter much when $100 silver and $2000 gold gets here...and those are just bottom feeder numbers compared to five years from now.
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“At this station, theory and practice are united, so nothing works and nobody understands why.”
Dallas Fed president Richard Fisher

Last edited by usda; 05-13-2011 at 01:23 AM.
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Old 07-13-2011, 04:08 PM   #184
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http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/1791...eral-reser.htm

Silver will go up due to a high demand creating shortages.
---

http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article29233.html

Silver will go down due to a market glut.
---

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Old 08-07-2011, 07:18 AM   #185
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This recent downgrade by S&P, I am wondering how will that affect the price of silver? Anybody care to speculate? So basically, the US dollar is going to loose even more. What is a person to do that is trying to save money? Buy silver? Buy ammo? Buy toilet paper? What?
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Old 08-07-2011, 08:20 AM   #186
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Fear is king or soon will be .

What do people do when terrified ?

They buy US Treasuries and precious metals .
( Yes I know what you probably think of US Treasuries ) .

Which means there may even be a USD$ rally as
money moves in to US Treasuries .

I think it obvious that only precious metals offer security until
the blow-off phase is in progress .

IMO you are staring at a period of deflation eventually
followed by hyper-inflation .

The price of silver is going up ( way up ) .

[img]http://thisbluemarble.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3259&d=1312720779[img]
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Old 08-07-2011, 08:28 AM   #187
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Greta, everything is "measured against". The dollar is measured against other currencies, PMs are measured against the dollar - so if the value of what the dollar is measured against is in less demand than the dollar, it may appear to stay the same or even rise. But if all fiat currency is falling, then PMs will appear to be worth more.

PMs are to PRESERVE wealth. It will carry your wealth over the crisis. You may be able to use them during, to buy a big ticket item like a house or a car that the owner otherwise would not be able to sell, but hungry cold people are not going to trade food or firewood for PMs. You need tangible, valuable goods to trade for what you need - and that oft quoted list of 100 items to disappear during a crisis is as good as any other.

Stock up to provide for yourself and your family - not just food. Think of everything you buy in a year and have at least a year's worth put away. The idea is, the less you have to buy when hamburger costs a gazillion dollars a pound, the more cash you'll have for the necessities of life that will surely rise as well - like electricity, taxes, and gasoline. Figure where you can cut down, or do without. Look around and assess your resources. A small stove that runs on freefall wood may be more valuable than a brand new eight burner Wolff stove when TSHTF. Can you launder clothes if you don't want to use your washing machine or drier? Get non-electric backups and then backup your backups.

Get items to help others and/or barter.

Ammo and TP are good. Personal use, preservation of community, barter item.
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Old 08-07-2011, 08:40 AM   #188
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Ned Schmit said ...
Quote:
Silver will go down due to a market glut.
Rrrrrrright! .... that would be the same Ned who said as late as 29 Sept 2010
"do not buy gold because it is overbought" or words to that effect .


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File Type: jpg 2011 08 07 gold vs EUR and USD.jpg (49.6 KB, 62 views)
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Old 08-07-2011, 01:37 PM   #189
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Greta, everything is "measured against". The dollar is measured against other currencies, PMs are measured against the dollar - so if the value of what the dollar is measured against is in less demand than the dollar, it may appear to stay the same or even rise. But if all fiat currency is falling, then PMs will appear to be worth more.

PMs are to PRESERVE wealth. It will carry your wealth over the crisis. You may be able to use them during, to buy a big ticket item like a house or a car that the owner otherwise would not be able to sell, but hungry cold people are not going to trade food or firewood for PMs. You need tangible, valuable goods to trade for what you need - and that oft quoted list of 100 items to disappear during a crisis is as good as any other.

Stock up to provide for yourself and your family - not just food. Think of everything you buy in a year and have at least a year's worth put away. The idea is, the less you have to buy when hamburger costs a gazillion dollars a pound, the more cash you'll have for the necessities of life that will surely rise as well - like electricity, taxes, and gasoline. Figure where you can cut down, or do without. Look around and assess your resources. A small stove that runs on freefall wood may be more valuable than a brand new eight burner Wolff stove when TSHTF. Can you launder clothes if you don't want to use your washing machine or drier? Get non-electric backups and then backup your backups.

Get items to help others and/or barter.

Ammo and TP are good. Personal use, preservation of community, barter item.
Thanks for the advice. The only problems is, my space is very limited. That is why I like the precious metals because I can store them fairly easily without taking up too much space.
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Old 09-24-2011, 01:33 AM   #190
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Silver Prices Slammed — Here's Why
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Old 01-12-2012, 05:17 AM   #191
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Eric Sprott: "Who is not Getting the Silver?"


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Old 01-27-2012, 05:44 PM   #192
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I fail to see how JPM can liquidate all its short positions ( too many )
however for survival purposes it would make sense for them to go 'long' .

Quote:
I have been telling you that the silver comex has been trading differently to gold
for at least the last 3 months.
It seems that the high frequency traders are almost the entire volume at the comex
and these guys are nothing but day traders. Thus silver can move in monstrous directions
as the remaining longs are by definition are strong in nature and cannot be suckered into selling.
The other issue is that Butler believes now that JPMorgan is now liquidating its short position
and will soon be going long.
This will be the end game as nobody will supply the paper short.


The world of silver is becoming very strange .
Quote:
Another wild day at the silver pits.

First off, we had a huge dealer withdrawal of silver to the tune of 946,338 oz
and this silver went to the customer JPMorgan. Believe it or not the deposit
was 946,339 oz or one oz off.
I guess they are trying to throw the scent off. Regardless this is a confirmed
settlement as JPMorgan will probably use this silver to put out fires in other jurisdictions.
Quote:
Thus the total number of silver oz standing in this non delivery month is as follows;

5,805,000 oz (served) + 205,000 oz (to be served upon) = 6,010,000 oz.

we now have 900,000 more oz o silver standing in this non delivery month of January
compared to the big delivery month of December. It looks like Blythe has lost her magical fiat powers.

http://harveyorgan.blogspot.com/
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Old 12-08-2016, 02:52 PM   #193
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Default The Fix Is In

Examples of messages at the source:

Quote:
Back in April, when we first reported that Deutsche Bank had agreed to settle allegations it had rigged the silver market in exchange for $38 million, we revealed something stunning: "in a curious twist, the settlement letter revealed that the former members of the manipulation cartel have turned on each other", and that Deutsche Bank would provide docments implicating other precious metals riggers. To wit: "In addition to valuable monetary consideration, Deutsche Bank has also agreed to provide cooperation to plaintiffs, including the production of instant messages, and other electronic communications, as part of the settlement. In Plaintiff’s estimation, the cooperation to be provided by Deutsche Bank will substantially assist Plaintiffs in the prosecution of their claims against the non-settling defendants."

Overnight we finally got a glimpse into what this "production" contained, and according to documents filed by the plaintiffs in the class action lawsuit, what Deutsche Bank provided as part of its settlement was nothing short of "smoking gun" proof that UBS Group AG, HSBC Holdings Plc, Bank of Nova Scotia and other firms rigged the silver market. The allegation, as Bloomberg first noted, came in a filing Wednesday in a Manhattan federal court lawsuit filed in 2014 by individuals and entities that bought or sold futures contracts.

In the document records surrendered by Deutsche Bank and presented below, traders and submitters were captured coordinating trades in advance of a daily phone call, manipulating the spot market for silver, conspiring to fix the spread on silver offered to customers and using illegal strategies to rig prices.

“Plaintiffs are now able to plead with direct, ‘smoking gun’ evidence,’ including secret electronic chats involving silver traders and submitters across a number of financial institutions, a multi-year, well-coordinated and wide-ranging conspiracy to rig the prices,” the plaintiffs said in their filing.

The latest evidence is critical because as the plaintiffs add, the new scheme “far surpasses the conspiracy alleged earlier.” As a result, the litigants are seeking permission to file a new complaint with the additional allegations, i.e., demand even more reparations from the defendants who have not yet settled, and perhaps even more evidence of ongoing market rigging. Their proposed complaint broadens the case beyond the four banks initially sued to include claims against units of Barclays Plc, BNP Paribas Fortis SA, Standard Chartered Plc and Bank of America Corp.
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