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Finance and Investment Formerly the Vault, this is our NO POLITICS zone for discussing our money and investments.

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Old 10-07-2008, 07:38 PM   #1
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Default Politics in the Vault

Political comments and discussions belong in the Soapbox Politics or Op/Ed.

If you want to make a political comment on a thread that has been posted in the Vault Economy or one of its subforums, please ask a mod to split or copy the Original Post to the appropriate forum. Otherwise, be warned, your political commentary post may be split off and sent to Hell.

Thank you.

Last edited by flourbug; 01-06-2012 at 09:59 AM. Reason: updated due to forum name changes.
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Old 10-07-2008, 08:56 PM   #2
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IMHO this will be a bit tricky, as there is an inherently political aspect to the responses that will be taken to our current economic crisis.

If the OP is a political article, I can see it belonging in the Soapbox... but I can see how political comments logically flow from some of the financial news.

I'm sure we'll all try to comply, but perhaps you can help draw these lines as issues arise.


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Old 10-07-2008, 09:18 PM   #3
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MomCares, news about our horrendous economy is bound to result in angry finger pointing.

But, I am getting complaints whenever the words "Republican" or "Democrat" occur in a post in the Vault. A lot of our regulars want the Vault to be a politics-free zone. They have a point. Once politics is introduced, any discussion can quickly deteriorate into a flame war.

Entire threads can be copied over to the Soapbox, or, if someone wants to introduce politics midway through, we can split that post off to start a new thread.

I'm not trying to stifle conversation. I'm trying to keep everyone happy. Let's help the Vault stay clear of politics, and let the political debates carry on in the Soapbox.
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Old 10-07-2008, 09:43 PM   #4
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Uhhh OK.

Catch-22
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Old 10-07-2008, 11:06 PM   #5
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I'll do my best, but please don't make me go to the Soapbox ever again.


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Old 10-08-2008, 12:33 AM   #6
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Personally as a foreigner I think it's frightening that this major credit crisis has coincided with an election in the near future. Things that can be put off will be put off. Blame will be placed at the feet of the other side whether it is called for or not. This election will compound the undesirable situation we are finding ourselves in. Strong leaders will be needed however for the next month or so a big percentage of the population will be doing their damdest to destroy their reputations weakening the possibility of a recovery this year.
NZ is having an election at the same time as the US and I am sick of the shit thats flying already.
Lets keep partisan politics out of the vault.
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Old 10-08-2008, 02:01 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flourbug View Post
Political comments and discussions belong in the Soapbox.

If you want to make a political comment on a thread that has been posted in the Vault, please ask a mod to split or copy the Original Post into the Soapbox first. Otherwise, be warned, your political commentary post may be split off and sent to Hell.

Thank you.

so, change the title of this thread to "please no politics in the vault",
else those who just read the thread-titles may misinterpret.
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Old 10-08-2008, 06:29 AM   #8
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Politics is all about people trying to acquire other peoples wealth by political process ,
acquiring power by offering to bribe electors with other peoples wealth or
about trying to protect your own wealth from other people .

I fail to see how you can have a complete discussion of wealth without
discussing attempts to take it from the current owners .

Last edited by Ross; 10-08-2008 at 06:51 AM.
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Old 10-08-2008, 07:33 AM   #9
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Ross, its just being considerate of some of our active members who are trying to deal with an economic crisis without finger pointing muddying the threads.

Last edited by flourbug; 10-08-2008 at 07:41 AM.
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Old 10-08-2008, 11:49 AM   #10
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FWIW, it's usually impossible to solve symptoms without understanding underlying causes, so IMHO discussion on cause is a necessary aspect of the vault. I think it can be done in a civil manner and for the most part, IMHO, has been.

I also think, aside from determining cause, different political parties embrace different economic theories which will drive solutions.

I guess if we try to use the economic terms instead of the party labels it may work and also may be more applicable to different countries.

As I said I'll try -- but remember politics also invariably enters the Flu Clinic, The Lab, The Science Center and virtually every other area of CE, so IMHO it's not realistic to expect it to totally dissapear from conversations here.


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Old 10-08-2008, 12:32 PM   #11
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It'll be interesting to see how a subject with an absolute proximate cause can be discussed without treading on the cause.

Large can, many worms, hopelessly entangled.
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Old 10-08-2008, 04:11 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flourbug View Post
Ross, its just being considerate of some of our active members who are trying to deal with an economic crisis without finger pointing muddying the threads.
I'm all for it. Numerous members are doing a good job finding and posting articles for the Vault. Why muddy up the good information when it's easy to start a thread in the Soapbox or Dungeon.
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Old 10-08-2008, 04:16 PM   #13
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Just curious -- does anyone here know of any websites (or newspapers, or radio programs) discussing financial issues where politics never enters into the discussions?

Also, FWIW -- many, if not most, of the articles posted here begin with a political point of view, which is only logical since politicians are often the key players in economics.


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Old 10-08-2008, 04:29 PM   #14
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If you don't think this will work I AM open to suggestions. Anyone have a better idea?
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Old 10-08-2008, 04:43 PM   #15
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If you don't think this will work I AM open to suggestions. Anyone have a better idea?
In general, I don't think separating politics and economics is possible if we want meaningful discussion.

I do completely understand why some wish to escape all talk of politics, especially during this ugly election season. It's been my impression here and in the past CE that threads in the Vault tend to stay much more civil and informative than threads in the Soapbox or Dungeon.

IMHO the key is to let us know if a moderator sees a thread or post that they think crosses a line, but maybe others have a better suggestion.



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Old 10-08-2008, 04:52 PM   #16
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There needs to be a line. As far as I'm concerned saying something like "The policies of the Bush administration have led us to this edge of the abyss and here is why..." is fine and dandy. Saying "tax and spend liberal, tax and spend liberal, tax and spend liberal" or "tax cuts for the wealthy, tax cuts for the wealthy, tax cuts for the wealthy" every damn thread is over the line and soapbox material.

On the other hand...

I *really do* think we could do without politics in the vault because I approach these discussion not from a "how did we get here" direction but more of a"what do I do now" sort of thing. But I am unique in that I hate almost all politicians of both parties equally.
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Old 10-08-2008, 04:52 PM   #17
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The Vault is about money.

We're suffering a total financial collapse because of politicians, but politics has to stay out of the money threads?

Talk about a big red elephant in the room.

In one way I sympathize with those who feel hopeless and don't want to hear a word about politics, but these are the same people who want to wash their hands of their responsibility for the mess we're in.
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Old 10-08-2008, 06:10 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny View Post

I *really do* think we could do without politics in the vault because I approach these discussion not from a "how did we get here" direction but more of a"what do I do now" sort of thing.
This "what do I do now" question is fine from a microeconomic standpoint, but as today's events clearly show often macroeconomics -- which has everything to do with politics -- ultimately drives much of the success or failure of even that microeconomic planning and thinking.


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Old 10-08-2008, 11:32 PM   #19
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DHoooooooooooooooo The sky is falling "again"
www.tradingroom.com.au/allords_applet.jsp
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Old 10-08-2008, 11:43 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flourbug View Post
If you don't think this will work I AM open to suggestions. Anyone have a better idea?
In order to keep everyone happy I will try to never post in the Vault as I cannot imagine how that one subject could be discussed without the other. Sorta like discussing disease without mentioning germs.

This makes the Vault something of a key club and perhaps that's what it should be.

But the topic is too important and fertile for discussion to be cast into a miscellaneous category.

Could we consider another room where economics is the central topic but the rest (maybe most) could have at it in free melee?

OH
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Old 10-08-2008, 11:57 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Hawk View Post
Sorta like discussing disease without mentioning germs.
Coffee spew +1
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Old 10-09-2008, 12:37 AM   #22
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Thank you all for your input. I do get your point that it is difficult if not impossible to separate economics from politics. I also hear the voices of those who want to avoid political threads in the Vault. So how about this for a compromise:



I've added this little flag to the thread icons.

If you start a thread in the Vault that attaches political blame for the economy to one party or another, use that icon so the people who want to avoid such threads can do so.

If the original post is NOT flagged, but your post contains political comments, use the flag icon so those who prefer to skip over your post, can do so.

Does this work for everyone?

Last edited by flourbug; 10-11-2008 at 01:24 PM.
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Old 10-09-2008, 12:43 AM   #23
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I for one am happy to try... but I'll have to see if I can find the icon when I need it.


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Old 10-09-2008, 12:44 AM   #24
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I can see no flag, only (x in square). Most people would forget
to add flags or the thread developes other than expected.
So moderators should also do it

http://curevents.org/images/icons/icon1.gif
http://curevents.org/images/icons/icon14.gif
http://curevents.org/images/icons/icon13.gif
http://curevents.org/images/icons/flag.gif


http://curevents.org/attachment.php?...1&d=1223526589



US-flag ?









[img]http://curevents.org/member.php?u=20[img]

Last edited by gsgs; 10-09-2008 at 12:54 AM.
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Old 10-09-2008, 12:50 AM   #25
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flag

MomCares, click on the Go Advanced button and you'll see the thread icons right under the text box for your reply.

gsgs, I suspect your browser may hold things in cache longer than most others. You've found the flag - its the last in your list of icons.
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