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Cleaning and Organizing Tips and tricks to get your home and all within it sparkling clean and neat as a pin.

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Old 01-30-2013, 01:17 AM   #1
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Default Dishwasher clean dirty dish blues

So, all of my glasses have lip marks. My cutlery looks like a 2 year old washed everything. My Gladware containers are milky. A plastic measuring spoon, with a film of dry cocoa powder, has gone through the dishwasher 3 times, and it STIlLL has cocoa on it. The stainless steel interior of my dishwasher looks like a scummy coffee pot...after going through a full cleaning cycle.

I've cleaned all filters...no change. I've been extra careful to be sure the water is hot. No change.

Since we lost phosphates in our dishwasher detergent in the last year or two, I've made my own dishwasher detergent. Let's see if I wake up to the sparkling clean dishes, glassware, and cutlery I once had.
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Old 01-30-2013, 01:49 AM   #2
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Do the dishwasher cleaners work?
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Old 01-30-2013, 02:35 AM   #3
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They might, Feather, I haven't tried them. I don't think that would help the glasses and cutlery, though. And we scrape and rinse everything before loading. Even the power scrubber setting does nothing.

All around me I hear complaints of women, regarding dishes and clothes no longer becoming clean. I've resorted to using laundry detergent AND Oxy-Clean on our clothes, all the time. I have a harder time getting our clothes clean now, than I did when the girls had clay and grass stains on their pants. Phosphates have been pulled, and the resulting products just don't clean as well.
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Old 01-30-2013, 06:41 AM   #4
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Quote:
I've resorted to using laundry detergent AND Oxy-Clean on our clothes, all the time.
Same here.

We bought a new dishwasher a couple of months ago. At first it cleaned beautifully, then about 2 weeks ago dishes started coming out with a film on them. It wasn't food - it was detergent. There was a white film on Everything. Another rinse cycle didn't remove it. It got so bad I had to rewash everything in the sink. We ordered the dishwasher cleaning tablets and used them last Friday. They worked... but last night there were faint marks on the dishes and glasses again. At $7 for a package of three tablets this is not something I want to use every other day. I have some TSP. I'll try a teaspoon in the next load.

rb., I bought several cartons of TSP at a hardware store. You have to be careful to get the correct item, the shelves are full of misleading TSP "substitutes". But it is hard to get and even at a tsp a load I have a finite supply.

I also bought soap nuts. They say they get laundry very clean. We shall see about that.
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Old 01-30-2013, 08:08 AM   #5
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Soap nuts?
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Old 01-30-2013, 08:13 AM   #6
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Soap nuts - https://www.lehmans.com/p-2980-lehma...soap-nuts.aspx
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Old 01-30-2013, 08:23 AM   #7
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We used TSP for two years and were happy with the results. A teaspoon per load sounds right. It freaked out my wife to think I purchased it in the paint isle though.

We recently replaced the dishwasher because the once quiet machine was way too loud in our open floor plan with a Miele.

Most new top of the line dishwashers do not come with disposals, so we were worried, but after 6 months its never been an issue.

And it has a built in water softener, salt based, that performs the same task as phosphates, makes the water slippier, so we stopped using TSP, and haven't had a dirty, "clean" dish since....
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Old 01-30-2013, 10:19 AM   #8
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Phosphates in cleaners are multi functional, so they are hard to replace. They add alkalinity to the cleaner, allowing removal of grease/oil through soponification, they buffer the cleaning solution maintaining the alkalinity as its consumed, they sequester calcium, magnesium, and iron (as pablo mentioned above) which cause scaling issues and tie up other components of the cleaner, and they are excellent dispersants which keep small particles suspended in the cleaning solution instead of redepositing on the items you are trying to get clean.
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Old 01-30-2013, 11:22 AM   #9
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fb, PE, I read that you shouldn't use TSP, but STPP (sodium tripolyphoshate). TSP has been a favourite cleaner of mine, but I'd be uncomfortable using it on my dishes, since I have a new Bocsh that is a low water user. I broke down last night and ordered a bucket of STPP from the Chemistry Store.

The mix I made up worked well, but didn't remove the lip mark build-up on the glasses, nor did it remove the build-up on the cutlery. Everything is shiny, except for the build-up areas. The mix was borax, baking soda, salt, citric acid, three drops of liquid dish soap, and 1/2 c vinegar.

I may run it empty with some TSP today, to see if it removes the build up on the tub. Don't know what kind of water we have, but we get no build-up of calcium, lime, or iron. City has been screwing with the chlorine levels, as the moved from chloramine to chlorine last year, and they're trying to find the right levels. Our ph is about 7.2, based on my ponding experience. If that makes a difference.
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Old 01-30-2013, 01:20 PM   #10
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I'll have to look for STPP. I only use a tiny bit in our laundry. I don't use it on our dishes at all.

Soft water will etch glassware. Hard water builds up soap residue. The trick is finding what works for YOU.
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Old 01-31-2013, 12:03 PM   #11
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A product called Lemishine helped me with the film issues in extremely hard water.
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Old 01-31-2013, 02:02 PM   #12
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I use a cup or so of white vinagar during the last rinse. Works for me.
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Old 01-31-2013, 02:17 PM   #13
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rb, can you tell me why you think you should use TSPP instead of TSP? What is your concern about using it on dishes?

Another thing to keep in mind is that phosphates are good at preventing scaling and deposition, but they may not be the best thing for removing scale and deposits that have already formed. You may have to go on the acid side (citric, vinegar)to get it off.

Another thing I'll mention is that combining citric acid/vinegar (acids) with borax, sodium bicarb, TSP, TSPP (bases) will likey negate some of the effects of each as they neutralize each other. I would suggest staying either on the acid side or the base side.
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Old 01-31-2013, 03:47 PM   #14
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Ex, I can't remember why, or where, I read that you should use STPP, instead of TSP. I'll try to find it later today. My concern is only regarding residue that may be left behind, with a low water machine, and then ingested daily.

I'm just going to add a touch of the STPP to the manufacturers' dishwasher detergent, and see if it alleviates the problem.

Found it...STPP is what was removed from detergents.
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Old 01-31-2013, 04:37 PM   #15
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If you've ever picked up purified DNA or RNA in between your fingers, you would feel a slippery goo.

The backbone of DNA are phosphate groups.

Phosphates aren't dangerous. They just help things grow.

If you google phosphates are dangerous, youl get mumbo jumbo science, that phosphates are dangerous because they make things grow. Then they throw in that they are dangerous if inhaled. Uh, water is dangerous if inhaled.

I disagree Ross, if you google Trisodiium Phosphate, you'll see that was the most commonly used chemical in cleaners till banned, it's still put into food as an ingredient, and is still used in industrial strength cleaners, like say for restaurants..
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Old 01-31-2013, 05:12 PM   #16
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Thanks, PE.
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Old 01-31-2013, 05:28 PM   #17
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I am just now using the last bit of my pre-ban y2k stash of dishwasher detergent. Got a big pail of restaurant dishwasher detergent from cash & carry, should still have the phosphate in it per the exemptions PE mentioned. Will be trying it out next month.....

I use a teaspoon of TSP in my wash for whites. Sun drying beats bleach, hands down.....in the 3 months a year we have some sun.

Wojapi, pallid person..........
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Old 02-01-2013, 08:43 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cactus Az View Post
I use a cup or so of white vinagar during the last rinse. Works for me.
I use a slurp of vinegar during the pre-wash. Our water has a lot of limestone in it.
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Old 02-01-2013, 01:18 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wojapi View Post
I am just now using the last bit of my pre-ban y2k stash of dishwasher detergent. Got a big pail of restaurant dishwasher detergent from cash & carry, should still have the phosphate in it per the exemptions PE mentioned. Will be trying it out next month.....

I use a teaspoon of TSP in my wash for whites. Sun drying beats bleach, hands down.....in the 3 months a year we have some sun.

Wojapi, pallid person..........
I read somewhere that detergents do NOT store well. Not sure why, only that their efficacy decreases.
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Old 02-01-2013, 03:54 PM   #20
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PE - The alkalinity, over time, will degrade the surfactants. A lot of our heavy duty powdered alkaline cleaners would start to turn brownish in color over time, which was a sure sign that the surfactants had gone bad.
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Old 02-02-2013, 02:18 AM   #21
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I went to three hardware stores today looking for tsp. I found nothing but empty places on the. Shelves
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Old 02-02-2013, 02:26 AM   #22
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Amazon
Tsp on amazon. Read the comments and frequently bought with....

This is what I bought at Home Depot.
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