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Old 10-05-2011, 05:23 AM   #26
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The Little Ice Age caused social trauma .
( between the 16th and 19th centuries ).


Full article


Main points extracted from referenced article .

#This period was colder than at any other time in the past 2000 years
particularly cold between 1560 and 1660.
# shorter growing season that halved the grain yield.
# People shrank in height due to malnutrition ( 2 cm )
# Every aspect of life was affected
# Caused social crisis between the 16th and 19th centuries.
# Grain price rises then social disturbance, famine and migration,
Eventually this led to wars, such as the Thirty Years War
epidemics and a stunting of people's growth due to poor nutrition.

# height only increased again, with rising temperatures, after 1650.
Europe suffered "population collapse" with about 10 million deaths

# Wet tropical countries with high land-carrying capacity
did best .
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Old 10-05-2011, 10:39 AM   #27
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Height. I see so many enormously tall people where I live. Especially in the younger ones. Well over six feet both male and females. Smallish heads, long torsos and legs? my god they go on forever.

Too tall. Like the Watusi's or a batch of basketball players. Some of it is familial, with wealthy generations consuming good food and loads of protein.

Nutritian.

I'm short.
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Old 10-05-2011, 11:59 AM   #28
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I see so many enormously tall people where I live. Especially in the younger ones. Well over six feet both male and females.
Milk. My two older daughters are 5'10' and 5'11". The youngest is 5' even. She was lactose intolerant.
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Old 10-09-2011, 02:07 AM   #29
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I think it is fairly obvious that a primary key to surviving this
event will be the availability of cheap power .

You can grow/produce food almost anywhere if you have
affordable power . Cheap power will also be critical
for the transportation of fresh food to cooler climates .

IMO the takeaway is that because of the long time lag
involved in creating power delivery infrastructure Governments
should focus on clearing the red tape obstructions and
possibly providing tax incentives .
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Old 11-13-2011, 06:51 AM   #30
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We seem well on track for another Dalton minimum .

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Old 11-13-2011, 10:42 AM   #31
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I thought I would jump in here with a few comments.

India, CHina, and Argentina have very large agricultural outputs. All three had problems this kast year. The US had a drought problem with Texas. Shifts in growing zones will come about naturally - but violently (so to speak). There was a rice problem a couple of years ago that is just now working itself out. If productivity (yield) drops, and consumption rises (more money and population in India and China), then exports drop. A lot of exports go to countries that are in famine. No surplus food - people die. As the date of first frost drops in latitude, productivity and yield drop. It may not be noticeable ontill you get a hard frost one year that decimates a whole states worth of crops followed by a flood that destroys another states crops followed by another drought in Texas.

Throw water issues into that and you have huge problems. People will get shot if the cops go to the farms to turn the wells off un Georgia, North Florida, and Alabama.

Here in Florida, we had a large citrus industry pushing right up to the edge of Gainesville (North Central Florida). Most of that got wiped out when cold weather killed most everything that looked like an orange tree down a hundred mikes.

Science can reduce a lot of these problems as can our university outreach programs. I was at a large meeting last year where the head of one of the nations crop research centers told those in attendance that have his PHDs were being laid off - with their research beeing essentially burned. I was at another large meeting early this year where a Big Wig from the University of Georgia informed us that half of the extension agents were being canned.

This has an effect of mitigating the transition of crops to people who dont know how to grow them. Or using the wrong fetilizer. Insect pests will also move. There are agricultural industries that have no Entomoligists. Take out the extension agents, and make farmers grow new crops and you got a CF.

Hundreds of factors could collide. The solution is communication, education, money, and cheap OIL. The internet solves the communications problem. Education will occure with money going into the state universities for outreach, and research. Money has to be provided to the Universities. Shale oil technologies will solve the oil issue for the next hundred years.

I think the most immediate agricultural issue is with tree fruits, nuts, etc. As I said about the oranges, a radical change in climate could change the landscape in tree agriculture as it could take many years to grow pecan trees, orange trees, apple orchards, etc. Problem here is that there may be no land to grow new trees. Of course Florida is a great example.

I dont think the blueberry industry would be affected in the least as crops might come in a week or two later - but who would notice since the crops comes in continuously.

The Vidalia onion crop might come in two weeks later - but again, who would notice? Most of their crop goes into controlled atmosphere storage for release throughout the rest of the year.
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Old 11-13-2011, 06:25 PM   #32
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China is on the verge of an environmental catastrophe. How that will affect their food production remains to be seen. But the way their are poisoning their environment wholesale, I cannot see how they can keep toxins out of their food supply. I would assume that their food is already contaminated to varying degrees, and that the problem will continue to grow worse. India is not as bad, but has similar problems in some areas. So do the South American nations, including Brazil and Argentina. If their food is contaminated, only the most desperate and poor nations will buy their exported food.

The point about water is an excellent one. Aquifers are already being drained at unsustainable rates. The tension between farmers and ranchers on one side, and environmentalists and the government on the other will continue to grow. The water wars have been political thus far, but violence will break out sooner or later. Water conservation measures will be enforced, and the government has the SWAT teams, and if necessary, the troops to make it happen. Small food producers will continue to be driven out of business, and corporate agribiz will continue to take over more and more productive land and to buy up more water rights contracts. That means more GMO crops and more of our food supply controlled by a corrupt partnership between government and megacorps.

As for starving third world nations, they will become increasingly dependent upon aid from wealthy developed nations. This, of course, gives the wealthy nations some serious financial and political leverage over poor ones.

Interesting how this all works in favor of the big powers having an ever-increasing amount of control over the world and us peons. And as the economic crisis progresses, our buying power shrinks and we pay even more in taxes, sinking deeper into indentured servitude to Uncle Sugar. With corporatism becoming the standard form of government in the most powerful nations on Earth, I guess the bankster coup is progressing nicely. The bank does not just own our homes. It owns Planet Earth and all that dwell there.
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Old 11-29-2011, 09:35 AM   #33
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MAUNDER MINIMUM 1740—REPLAY IN 2020?,





Extract .....
Quote:
A reader recently pointed out a fascinating temperature comparison—between 1700 AD and today. He marked two sections of the world’s oldest temperature record–Central England Yearly Average Temperature 1660–2008: The first section showed our famous recent temperature surge from 1976–1998. He also marked a similar strong temperature surge from AD 1688–1738.

The killer in the comparison is that the temperature surge after 1688 was followed by a sudden plunge into one of the coldest periods in the entire Little Ice Age. The cold of 1739-40 was called The Great Frost, and it devastated Europe from Italy to Iceland.

The linkage? The Great Frost followed a period of very few sunspots—The Maunder Minimum (1645–1715). Today, we know that fewer sunspots predict colder temperatures, and the modern world has just undergone a similar dearth of sunspots, from 2007 to 2011.......( more ) ...
This interesting article continued here

http://joannenova.com.au/2011/05/the...t-irish-frost/
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Old 12-13-2011, 06:41 AM   #34
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Sunspot decline and earth temperature .





http://www.vukcevic.talktalk.net/NFC7a.htm
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Old 01-10-2012, 06:36 PM   #35
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Recent US temperature trends .




http://uddebatt.wordpress.com/tag/re...s-temperature/


Oceans cooling trend .



http://uddebatt.wordpress.com/2009/0...adily-cooling/
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Old 01-24-2012, 05:43 PM   #36
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David Archibald is running a very interesting series
of articles at wattsupwiththat in which he warns the
good times ( temperature wise ) are not going to last .
Death and famine maybe the new normal .

Plant hardiness zones .



Quote:
Figure 5 shows the current hardiness zones map. The 10°F width of these zones just about
equates to the 5°C drop in temperature due to the length of Solar Cycle 24 over that of Solar Cycle 22.

The lesson from the Dye 3 temperature data, and that late 17th Century Finnish famine, is this:
exploit the expansion in the habitable zone as the Sun becomes more active, but be prepared
to run back towards the equator because it isn’t going to last.
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Old 01-25-2012, 11:20 PM   #37
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The latest projection for solar cycle 25 is beyond scary .







Source ..
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/01/2...rs/#more-55458
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Old 01-26-2012, 11:49 PM   #38
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soooo what?? do they think we are headed toward another mini ice age?
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Old 01-27-2012, 03:01 AM   #39
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soooo what?? do they think we are headed toward another mini ice age?
Yes that is exactly what we fear .
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Old 01-27-2012, 10:54 AM   #40
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I guess that will mean the reformation of the polar ice caps huh...
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Old 02-04-2012, 08:37 PM   #41
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Well this is interesting . I had assumed that in a Mini Ice Age energy
investment would be a big winner , in particular natural gas .

The report below shows it is not that simple .

Apparently there are difficulties associated with delivering gas in cold weather .

http://www.focus-fen.net/index.php?id=n270022
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Old 02-10-2012, 04:11 AM   #42
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New Russian research paper describes a decline in
total solar irradiance ( TSI ) and onset of a Little Ice Age .


Quote:
Bicentenial Decrease of the Total Solar Irradiance leads to
Unbalance Thermal Budget of the Earth and the little Ice Age
Applied Physics Research Feb 1 , 2012

Habibullo I . Abdussamatov , Russia






Full paper found here


Summary found here



.
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Old 02-10-2012, 08:25 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by Ross View Post
Well this is interesting . I had assumed that in a Mini Ice Age energy
investment would be a big winner , in particular natural gas .

The report below shows it is not that simple .

Apparently there are difficulties associated with delivering gas in cold weather .

http://www.focus-fen.net/index.php?id=n270022
BRUSSELS—Russian natural-gas supplies to Europe were curtailed for a third straight day Friday as particularly cold winter weather increased Russia's domestic demand.

German utility RWE AG said Friday it is receiving about 30% less gas than it has requested Gazprom to deliver amid consistently severe cold weather.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...563136204.html

No word has been given on how long the shortfall might last.


Ms. Holzner said that while exact figures for Friday aren't yet available, Thursday's supplies from Russia to Austria declined by 30%, to Italy by 24% and to Poland by 8%. Other countries affected include Slovakia, Hungary, Bulgaria, Romania and Greece.



Ross, Thanks for posting the reports on reduced solar TSI
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Old 02-15-2012, 07:43 AM   #44
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Sunspots even below predicted diminishing trend ?


Attached Images
File Type: jpg 2012 02 15 Sun polar mag field.jpg (48.9 KB, 84 views)
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Old 08-14-2012, 11:36 PM   #45
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Another article by David Archibald .

This time on when it will start cooling ( Mid 2013 ) .

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/08/1...start-cooling/



.
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Old 08-14-2012, 11:51 PM   #46
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But how long will it cool?
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Old 08-15-2012, 12:57 AM   #47
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Until 2026, he says.
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Old 08-15-2012, 10:46 AM   #48
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Until 2026, he says.
Actually only slight relief around 2026 .

This probably a 40 or 60 year event .

Very uncertain duration , very uncertain severity .

I have seen another forecast that cooling will not start to hit until
2015 .

It seems to me that Melbourne Australia is having a cold winter right now .
Not from extremes of cold but from duration of continuously cold weather .
I have not bothered to check the statistics , so perhaps it is perception
based on my bias.
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Old 08-15-2012, 10:53 AM   #49
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While most of the US has had horrendous heat and drought, it has been cool and rainy in Florida. Cool for us is relative. We usually celebrate October because that is the first time daytime highs drop below 90F. Not this year. There have been many days it didn't make it out of the 80's. Add in long periods of heavy rain every day, and MOLD is growing on Everything. Bugs galore, especially our state bird, the Palmetto bug. Plants are spindly and yellow, and the stunted produce is steaming and bursting on the bush. But aside from Debbie, no hurricanes or serious tropical storms. This is good since the rain has made everything LOOK like we've just survived a biblical drenching. Definitely a change of pace. I would not be surprised to see a few days of frost this winter if this weather pattern holds on.
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Old 08-15-2012, 11:05 AM   #50
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That would be a long time to cool down. If it's too cold, growing would be hurt more than the heat/drought this year.

It's been a cooler summer here except for the past couple of weeks where we not only got heat but some wet from T storms.

So, how is the oranges in FL? Sounds like a lot of the rest got a bit soggy....
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