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Old 11-05-2009, 04:27 AM   #1
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Default Ukraine Mutated H1N1 Swineflu this video says it isn't the way it is reported.

Ukraine Mutated H1N1 Swineflu NO CURE, NO VACCINE,PNEUMONIC,
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Old 11-05-2009, 09:13 AM   #2
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Could it be possible that there is some sort of 'reassortment' of H1N1 in Ukraine, and the reason our media is completely ignoring this story is because the majority of the population is already wary of the vaccine?

I mean why vaccinate against an illness when it might not even be what we are dealing with?

Second question, if it is pneumonic plague - which I know nothing about - would a pneumonia vax help people over there?

What the hell is going on over there? Why is no one finding out?

On a side note: What is this Codex thing about? Man, looks like I got some reading to do today lol!
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Old 11-05-2009, 09:44 AM   #3
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I watched a few other videos that were in response to that one...but led me to this article: Has Baxter Released A BioWeapon In Ukraine?

http://www.rense.com/general88/bax.htm

Really long, but some people out there whole-heartedly believe that all this is man-made....

My head hurts..
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Old 11-05-2009, 10:30 AM   #4
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A lot of people DO believe this is man made. All I can say on that is if it is, it's an absolutely LOUSY bioweapon... flu is too unpredictable, too mutable & the perps would have to have a vax/treatment that worked in order to protect their own interests. Much of this notion is based on cobbling together a whole bunch of things that indeed happened but in such a way as to attribute the most nefarious purposes to these events or actions.

Baxter is guilty of gross stupidity if nothing else but am I willing to believe they'd deliberately engineer & wilfully release a biorweapon? No.

As to the questions raised in your first post. The news only got out a short time ago & until it's shown to be anything other than pandemic flu, (doubtful it's anything other than that), other nations have their own pandemic issues to deal with. It's not being ignored by the media - just not followed in a major way. Should the situation over there become worse, should new variants be found or deaths rise... our media will pick it up.

The Ukraine hasn't begun pH1N1 vaccines yet - they didn't have any, (or very little), to use & are counting on the WHO to provide some of the donated stockpiles promised by other nations. As to lack of uptake of seasonal flu vax - Ukrainians just aren't that into vaxes at all - some historical reasons there combined with some messed up vax campaigns in recent years.

Pneumonic plague is cauased by Yersinia pestis - pneumovax won't touch it, unfortunately.

The WHO is on the ground over there, assessing the situation on the ground & conducting sampling for testing. Samples are already at the Mill Hill lab in the UK - a few more days or hours even, should start bringing answers. But the WHO has to be INVITED into a country to help & before that happens, they have to know what's going on. It's only recently they were officially informed. WHO hasn't hit the panic button yet & I don't think they will.

We know pandemics affect disparate areas to differing degrees. The Ukraine may simply be the first area that's truly being hit hard in terms of numbers of ill & hospitalized. Right now, they're a good place to watch for the development of interesting secondaries. Overall, conditions are ripe for a real mess. Reported deaths though are still well in line with what we're seeing elsewhere.

Codex - huge isse. We have threads on it here.
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Old 11-05-2009, 11:29 AM   #5
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Off topic, and without drifting too far or starting an entire new thread...

Is this Codex in effect now? Will we start to see things come off the shelves?

I can't believe I have been in the dark about this lol...
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Old 11-05-2009, 12:41 PM   #6
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It doesn't apply to Canada, as far as I know.
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Old 11-05-2009, 01:46 PM   #7
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I suspect It's mostly the social and economic conditions in the Ukraine rather than any mutant virus.

Have you not read that the hospitals there don't even have masks. They're taking used masks and washing and ironing them to reuse then again. People are making their own masks. Six doctors or HCWs have died so far, cause they don't have vaccines, antivirals or vents for treatment. The drug stores are all out many things.

The Politicians there are spreading disinformation to assign blame and to sway the voters as a national election was just postponed the past week because of this outbreak..

Have you forgotten the annual natural gas embargo's imposed by the Russians because Ukraine could not pay their winter gas bills? Cold and hungry during an economic depression that is whats different about this swine Flu in Ukraine, not the virus.

The WHO has collected and sent samples of the virus to Mill Hill, England for sequencing, I'll wait to hear their assessment of any genetic changes in these viruses and not a teenager on YouTube.

!

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Old 11-05-2009, 01:53 PM   #8
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If it gets a mutation that substantially increases its CFR, we will know it very quickly. With blogs and other social media, there will not be anyway for the gov to hide it. It would be like a hot knife cutting through butter - you could not miss it.
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Old 11-05-2009, 02:02 PM   #9
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Have to admit, six doctors die during the past three weeks, WHO sending in teams to investigate, thats an eye opening attention getter. yes sir.
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Old 11-05-2009, 02:13 PM   #10
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The French news has reported this 'plague' in Turkey today.
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Old 11-05-2009, 02:17 PM   #11
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Quote:
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The French news has reported this 'plague' in Turkey today.
I'd read it but so many reporters, they don't know a Vaccine from a Tamiflu
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Old 11-05-2009, 02:20 PM   #12
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I just read somewhere 600 doctors are ill, cant find the link
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Old 11-05-2009, 02:21 PM   #13
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In the Ukraine?
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Old 11-05-2009, 02:22 PM   #14
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600 health workers - 200 are doctors

http://www.kyivpost.com/news/nation/detail/51972/

Update: more death, illness
Today at 14:10 | (Wire reports)
Ukraine’s Health Ministry on Nov. 5 said the death toll of patients with flu-related and acute respiratory illnesses (ARI) had jumped to 95.

Deputy Health Minister Zinoviy Mytnik said told journalists during a press briefing that a total of 633, 877 cases of flu-related and ARI have been registered from Oct. 29 through Nov. 5.

Mytnik said 15 of 31 patient samples sent to London for laboratory analysis tested positive for the H1N1, or swine flu, virus.

Meanwhile, over 600 medical workers in Kyiv have fallen sick with the flue and acute respiratory illnesses, according to Kyiv deputy Mayor Iryna Kilchitskaya, who on Nov. 5 told a daily Kyiv newspaper that 200 of the afflicted are doctors.
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Old 11-05-2009, 02:23 PM   #15
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That is very bad news!
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Old 11-05-2009, 02:36 PM   #16
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Thks FB, 200 doctors 600 healthcare workers, have been on 2 puters today, then GOOGLE HISTORY just found it for me..

BTW:

From the same page
http://www.kyivpost.com/news/nation/detail/51972/
Love to see behind this link In a related story, Ihor Pokanevych, head of the WHO office in Kyiv, told Deutsche Welle on Nov. 5 that..... just does not work
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Old 11-05-2009, 02:56 PM   #17
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Lets not all get in a tizzy over the Ukraine.

Once the WHO gets in and figures out what's really going on we can .

Personally, I think the situation in the Ukraine is mostly due to very bad preparation, lousy health care system, turning a blind eye to the freight train coming, and political infighting.
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Old 11-05-2009, 03:04 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AB
Lets not all get in a tizzy over the Ukraine.

Once the WHO gets in and figures out what's really going on we can .
Hey man, No tissy here, looks more like a witch hunt.
[popcorn/]


Ukraine - President's address to the Ukrainian people on the occasion of flu ...


People and doctors are dying from H1N1, Yushchenko told Ukrainians

more I address you in performance of my constitutional duty under the Article 106 of the Basic Law of the state. The reason is the emergency epidemic situation in the country. Infections of viral origin, including the A/H1N1 flu, are rapidly spreading across Ukraine. The emergency is evident in the scale of the epidemic: the speed and the geography of its spreading...


The Ukraine President likens the pandemic in severity and magnitude to Chernobyl. Claims the need for special powers, then calls for those responsible to be punished.

Quote:
In that, dear Ukrainians, I see not only moral but also criminal liability.
I have addressed the Prosecutor General of Ukraine with the request to institute criminal charges of negligence committed by first of all the Chief Sanitary Inspector, Kyiv City Sanitarian and the officials, who, despite having daily information on the epidemic situation in the country, neglected it in pursuit of political dividends and ambition.

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Old 11-08-2009, 07:36 PM   #19
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Joseph Moshe (MOSSAD Microbiologist): “Swine flu vaccine is bioweapon”
Friday, August 21, 2009
http://www.unfictional.com/joseph-mo...ccine-westwood



Today, the MSM are not talking about this case any more. Yesterday, they wanted us to believe that Joseph Moshe was a nutcase and a terrorist, arrested for threatening to bomb the White House. Interesting detail about his arrest (the “Westwood standoff”) was that he seemed to be immune to the 5 cans of tear gas and 5 gallons of law-enforcement grade pepper spray they pumped into his face. He very calmly remained in his car, as the video footage of his arrest shows.

Professor Moshe had called into a live radio show by Dr. A. True Ott, (explanation of Joseph Moshe’s call at 06:00) broadcast on Republic Broadcasting claiming to be a microbiologist who wanted to supply evidence to a States Attorney regarding tainted H1N1 Swine flu vaccines being produced by Baxter BioPharma Solutions. He said that Baxter’s Ukrainian lab was in fact producing a bioweapon disguised as a vaccine. He claimed that the vaccine contained an adjuvant (additive) designed to weaken the immune system, and replicated RNA from the virus responsible for the 1918 pandemic Spanish flu, causing global sickness and mass death.

Sources tell us that Bar-Joseph Moshe made no threat against the President or the White House. He did not mention any bomb or attack. He then proceeded to inform the White House he intended to go public with this information. When he noticed men in suits in front of his house and feared that the FBI was about to detain him, he packed some belongings into his car and, him being a dual Israeli citizen, tried to reach the Israeli consulate located in close proximity to the federal building where the standoff took place. The FBI and the bomb squad prevented him from reaching it. Who is this man? His profile on biomedexperts.com says he is a plant disease expert with many publications on his name involving the genetic manipulation of virii. Photographic evidence that Moshe is who he says he is can be found here.

Joseph Moshe was soon after his arrest sent or let go to Israel. Nothing has been heard from him since. The Secret Service was not the agency involved in the surveillance of Moshe at his home in California. This was done by the FBI, who had orders to detain or arrest him. Mounted on top of a large black vehicle used in his arrest was a microwave weapon that possibly damaged the electronics in Moshe’s car as well as any communication devices he had which might have been used to contact the media or others who could help him.

Moshe did not suffer the same effects of the gas and pepper spray that others would have because he had built up an immunity to such weapons as a by-product of his Mossad training. Moshe was not handcuffed because he was not placed under arrest.

Does this sound like an insane conspiracy theory? Sure it does. Due to the scarcity and anonimity of the sources we would dismiss it as exactly that, if it weren’t for some uncomfortable facts: Baxter Pharmaceutical has been caught, red-handed, in spreading a live, genetically engineered H5N1 Bird flu vaccine as a lethal biological weapon all over the world, destined to be used for human vaccinations. This happened just a few months ago. And only luck prevented a global catastrophe of epic proportions.

Baxter International Inc. had mixed live, genetically engineered avian flue viruses in vaccine material shipped to 18 countries. Only by sheer luck, a Czech laboratory decided to test the vaccine on a dozen ferrets, which all died in days. The World Health Organization was notified and catastrophe was averted. This was clearly a deliberate act on Baxter’s part, because they adhere to BS3, bio-safety level three. Baxter admitted a “mistake”. Such monumental screwups are totally impossible at that level. Many safety systems would have needed to be sabotaged, many key personell would have needed to be bribed. It simply can’t be done without direction from the inside. They did not send out the wrong vial – they produced dozens of gallons of biological-weapon agent (genetically engineered live H5N1 / Bird flu virus), then sent it out as a “vaccine”.

Baxter knew full well that their vaccine was lethal, because the year before they had tested it on a few hundred homeless Polish people – dozens died as a result. ....................................continued


=======================================

The guy in the above article is not Moshe Bar Joseph, Prof. of State of Israel / Ministry of Agriculture and Rural Development (ARO)
http://www.agri.gov.il/en/people/856.aspx




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Last edited by kanuck57; 11-08-2009 at 08:15 PM.
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Old 11-08-2009, 08:32 PM   #20
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That is more like it. I do not believe you can take anything the MSM says as truth. Any of it. We are able now to listen to people on the ground so to speak as we do here. We have people here from many countries and their first hand information is usually different from the MSM.

The codex is a very real thing and it does and will affect every country in the world. Codex has been discussed and in place for years. Step by step. Regulate everything. People cannot be allowed or trusted to make decisions for themselves. Home medicines need control. This is the essence of the treaty.

Codex sets limits and will control all vitamins and minerals used. The countries of the world are about to sign a treaty agreeing to many limits.

The Canadians, USA all are setting up to sign this treaty. Every country in the world will be affected. There is lots of information out there on what the codex regulations mean to we little folk.

MSM isn't about to report anything they are not authorized to tell you.
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Old 11-08-2009, 08:32 PM   #21
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H1N1 Genetic Changes in RBD Raise Pandemic Concerns
Recombinomics Commentary 19:09
November 8, 2009
http://www.recombinomics.com/News/11...H1N1_D225.html

Right now we know that many clinical specimens and viruses have been sent to one of the WHO collaborating centres for further study. We don't know the results of those studies, and it will probably take a couple of days for the full analysis of those viruses to be available.

The above comments are from Thursday's WHO press conference and raise concerns that the sequences from Ukraine (see map) have small changes which may include receptor binding domain changes. Several such changes have been seen in previously published sequences and position 225 has been of concern. That position was linked to the establishment of amantadine resistance in seasonal H3N2 and raises concerns that such a change in swine H1N1 could make the virus more virulent. In seasonal flu, the change was D225N, and that change is in at least three swine flu sequences, including two from fatal cases in San Paulo, Brazil collected in August (see list here).

The same position has also changed to D225G, which was also found in other fatal cases in San Paulo, Brazil. It is also in more recent (September) isolates from China (see list here).

The new polymorphism most widely reported in sequences in Genbank is D225E, which is common in recent sequences from Italy (see list here).

Thus, similar changes in sequences from Ukraine would be of most interest, and such changes have not been ruled out by WHO statements thus far.

The release of these sequences from Ukraine is now overdue, and these delays increase pandemic concerns.



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Old 11-08-2009, 09:46 PM   #22
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Yeah, but as usual, NIMAN is making big assumptions about wht the newly sequenced virii will will reveal.

He's not pointing out anything that was revealed, he's postulating on what, in opinins would be the worst that cound be..,

In my opinion, of course.
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Old 11-08-2009, 09:53 PM   #23
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Quote:
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That is more like it. I do not believe you can take anything the MSM says as truth. Any of it. We are able now to listen to people on the ground so to speak as we do here. We have people here from many countries and their first hand information is usually different from the MSM.

The codex is a very real thing and it does and will affect every country in the world. Codex has been discussed and in place for years. Step by step. Regulate everything. People cannot be allowed or trusted to make decisions for themselves. Home medicines need control. This is the essence of the treaty.

Codex sets limits and will control all vitamins and minerals used. The countries of the world are about to sign a treaty agreeing to many limits.

The Canadians, USA all are setting up to sign this treaty. Every country in the world will be affected. There is lots of information out there on what the codex regulations mean to we little folk.

MSM isn't about to report anything they are not authorized to tell you.

When is all of this supposed to be taking place? Exactly how will it affect average people?

All of the information I read seems way too out to lunch - I mean am I correct to assume that we will not be able to buy vitamins or supplements anymore?

Should we be stocking up on these things at some point? Will we get some sort of warning?
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Old 11-08-2009, 10:24 PM   #24
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The CODEX ALIMENTARIUS is way out in left field as far as I am concerned.

The U.S. and any other responsible country should forego ratifying it.

Governments grabbing too much power over every little thing we choose to eat or medicine we chose to take..,

Just the name of the treaty sounds like something machavellian and medieval.

But what has this got to do with the H1N1 virus in the Ukraiine?
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Old 11-09-2009, 10:00 PM   #25
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Default WHO Silence on Ukraine Sequences Raises Pandemic Concerns

WHO Silence on Ukraine Sequences Raises Pandemic Concerns
Recombinomics Commentary 19:01
November 9, 2009
http://www.recombinomics.com/News/11...ne_WHO_SS.html

It has now been more than a week since samples from Ukraine were sent to the WHO regional lab, Mill Hill in London. Although comments have been made that at least 15 samples were H1N1 confirmed, and the sequences showed no large changes or resistance to oseltamivir, there have been no updates. The absence of additional information or release of sequences, increases concerns that small changes undergoing further analysis are causing delays.

In the days post shipment, cases in Ukraine have quadrupled to over 1 million and the reported fatalities have grown from 30 to 174. The clinical presentation of 90 of the fatalities was classical H1N1 linked hemorrhagic pneumonia, which led to the "total destruction" of both lungs. These fatal cases were hospitalized 3-7 days after disease onset, highlighting the rapid progression of the infection in a large number of patients, suggesting genetic changes in the H1N1 virus.

Although politicians and media reports continue to downplay the significance by citing a small number of lab confirmed cases or more traditional pneumonia deaths, the number of fatal hemorrhagic cases was unusually large. These deaths involve hemorrhagic pneumonia in previously health young adults. Most deaths were 19-40 years of age. The age group with the second highest totals was 41-55. Thus, the age profile of these cases parallels those seen in other countries in H1N1 infected patients.

Isolates from other countries, including recent isolates from samples from fatal cases In Sau Paula, Brazil had changes at position 225 in the receptor binding domain (D225G and D225N). These recent changes in Brazil raise concerns that there are similar changes in Ukraine.

It is likely that a lack of suspect changes would have led to an announcement that no significant changes were found. Instead WHO has remained silent since Thursday, as concerns increase.

Sequencing should have been largely completed last week and the presence or absence of regional markers should be clear. Release of the sequences or a list of polymorphisms under further investigation would be useful.

The silence on the sequences continues to increase concerns.
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