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Old 07-20-2009, 04:20 PM   #1
Ought Six
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Arrow Senate Considers Concealed Weapons Permit Universal Reciprocity Amendment

Senate Considers Concealed Weapons Amendment


Brian Montopoli
CBS News
July 20, 2009


The Senate begins debating an amendment Monday that would allow people issued concealed weapons permits in their home state to carry those concealed weapons in any state in the union.

The amendment to the defense authorization bill is sponsored by Republican South Dakota Sen. John Thune, who says it "enables citizens to protect themselves while respecting individual state firearms laws." A release from Thune's office claims that "states with concealed carry laws enjoy significantly lower violent crimes rates than those states that do not."

The release also says that those who leave their home state with concealed weapons would still have to follow gun laws in other states, "including laws concerning specific types of locations in which firearms may or may not be carried."

In response to the introduction of the amendment, families of the victims of the 2007 Virginia Tech shootings placed a full-page ad in the Richmond Times-Dispatch urging Virginia's two senators, Jim Webb and John Warner, to oppose it.

The ad says the amendment would make some of the gun laws the families have been fighting for "meaningless by forcing our law enforcement to honor permits from states with weaker rules."

It notes, among other examples, that Virginia will not issue a concealed weapons permit to those who have received residential mental health or substance abuse treatment in the past five years, unlike some other states.

In New York, which has relatively strict gun laws, Democratic Sen. Charles Schumer is also speaking out against the amendment.

"Right now you walk down the streets in New York or Nassau County or Westchester County, you can have the solace of knowing that if someone has a gun on them, they've gone through a rigorous background check," he said at a Sunday news conference. "After this law, you can have no such comfort."

A group called the Violence Policy Center released a study Monday saying that "concealed handgun permit holders killed at least seven police officers and 44 private citizens in 31 incidents during the period May 2007 through April 2009." There have been three mass shootings carried out by concealed weapon permit holders, according to gun control groups.

Thune's amendment is cosponsored by 12 Republicans – John Barasso (Wyo.), Robert Bennett (Utah), Tom Coburn (Okla.), John Cornyn (Texas), John Ensign (Nev.), Michael Enzi (Wyo.), Chuck Grassley (Iowa), Judd Gregg (N.H.), Orrin Hatch (Utah), Johnny Isakson (Ga.), Pat Roberts (Kan.), and David Vitter (La.) – and one Democrat, Mark Begich (Ark.).

Illinois and Wisconsin do not issue concealed weapon permits, while 31 of the states that do issue them require some safety training before issuing them and do not allow alcohol abusers to have them, according to the Washington Post. Some states already have reciprocity agreements regarding their differing concealed weapons laws.

In an editorial, the Post calls the prospect of the amendment's passage "frightening" and says it would make the streets more dangerous.

"Conservatives usually argue against the federal government telling states what they can and can't do," the editorial argues. "If approved, the Thune amendment would trample all over the rights of states and cities to enforce reasonable restrictions on gun ownership."
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* The only usable tools for these tasks are guns, and thus I have the right to shoot anyone who would take my guns from me.
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Old 07-20-2009, 04:55 PM   #2
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Quote:
In New York, which has relatively strict gun laws, Democratic Sen. Charles Schumer is also speaking out against the amendment.

"Right now you walk down the streets in New York or Nassau County or Westchester County, you can have the solace of knowing that if someone has a gun on them, they've gone through a rigorous background check," he said at a Sunday news conference. "After this law, you can have no such comfort."
What a tool. Here I'll fix it for Chuckie....

"Right now you walk down the streets in New York or Nassau County or Westchester County, you can have the solace of knowing that if someone has a gun on them, they've gone through a rigorous background check" they are probably a gang-banger intent on robbing the un-armed populace.

///

Chance this passes ?

ZERO
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Old 07-20-2009, 05:04 PM   #3
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In New York, which has relatively strict gun laws, Democratic Sen. Charles Schumer is also speaking out against the amendment.

"Right now you walk down the streets in New York or Nassau County or Westchester County, you can have the solace of knowing that if someone has a gun on them, they've gone through a rigorous background check," he said at a Sunday news conference. "After this law, you can have no such comfort."
What utter and complete BS. That statement boggles the mind with its stupidity. That's exactly why I carry -because I don't know the other guy is legally able to pass a "rigorous background check" and will still carry ANYWAY!

Quote:
A group called the Violence Policy Center released a study Monday saying that "concealed handgun permit holders killed at least seven police officers and 44 private citizens in 31 incidents during the period May 2007 through April 2009." There have been three mass shootings carried out by concealed weapon permit holders, according to gun control groups.
From the Violence Policy Center's own press release, which can be found here:

Because most state systems allowing the carrying of concealed handguns in public by private citizens release little data about crimes committed by permit holders, the VPC reviewed shooting incidents as reported by news outlets. It is likely that the actual number of fatal criminal incidents involving concealed handgun permit holders is far higher.


The study, "Law Enforcement and Private Citizens Killed by Concealed Handgun Permit Holders -- An Analysis of News Reports, May 2007 to April 2009," finds that during the two-year period reviewed --
  • Concealed handgun permit holders have slain seven law enforcement officers resulting in criminal charges or the suicide of the shooter. All of the killings were committed with guns. An additional three law enforcement officers were injured in these incidents.
  • Concealed handgun permit holders have slain at least 44 private citizens resulting in criminal charges or the suicide of the shooter. All but one of the killings were committed with guns. An additional six private citizens were injured in these incidents.
  • In six of the 31 incidents (19 percent), the concealed handgun permit holder killed himself, bringing the total fatality count to 57.

At least they're relying on news sources for accurate information to build an "authoritative" press release upon. How many of these 44 that were killed were dirtbags committing a crime? What are the specific specific charges and were they related specifically to the shooting?

Sure would be nice to know how many killings were perpetrated by individuals who did not own weapons legally because over a two year span, my guess is that number would far exceed this "report". I'll take my chances with the CCW permit holders.
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Old 07-21-2009, 06:56 PM   #4
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In response to the introduction of the amendment, families of the victims of the 2007 Virginia Tech shootings placed a full-page ad in the Richmond Times-Dispatch urging Virginia's two senators, Jim Webb and John Warner, to oppose it.

The ad says the amendment would make some of the gun laws the families have been fighting for "meaningless by forcing our law enforcement to honor permits from states with weaker rules."
Speaking of utter tools... Hey numbnuts! If more people were legally carrying, your relative might still be alive!
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Old 07-21-2009, 07:13 PM   #5
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Sure would be nice to know how many killings were perpetrated by individuals who did not own weapons legally because over a two year span, my guess is that number would far exceed this "report". I'll take my chances with the CCW permit holders.
I think all the Violence Policy Center's report proves is that some CCW holders commit crimes, too. Well, duh!
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Old 07-21-2009, 09:55 PM   #6
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Sorry, no link as this is from an email from a trucking association.

Quote:
For those of you following this amendment to the Defense authorization bill, below are comments from Senator Thune addressing some of the issues raised about his amendment. Amendment 1618 is set to be voted on at noon (EST) Wednesday on the Senate floor.

Senator Thune's comments:

"It is also important to point out that there are a number of arguments that have been raised against this amendment which just, frankly, are not true.

First of all, my amendment does not create a national concealed carry permit system or standard. My amendment does not allow individuals to conceal and carry within States that do not allow their own citizens to do so. My amendment does not allow citizens to circumvent their home State's concealed carry permit laws. If an individual is currently prohibited from possessing a firearm under Federal law, my amendment would continue to prohibit them from doing so. When an individual with a valid concealed carry permit from their home State travels to a State that allows their citizens to conceal and carry, the visitor must comply with the restrictions of the State they are in.

It has been suggested that somehow this preempts State laws. That is not the case. The restrictions an individual State imposes upon concealed carry laws that have been enacted by that State must be followed by any individual who has a concealed carry permit in their own State. In other words, the individual who travels to that State will be required to live under the laws that are on the books in that State.

But it does get at an issue which I think many have raised regarding people who travel across State lines all the time-truckdrivers, for instance, who on any given day take a cargo load from one State across several States in this country and want to be able to protect themselves as they do so. In many cases, they stay overnight in truckstops or pull over for a nap somewhere. Being able to possess a firearm that would enable them to have some level of self-protection and to deter crimes from being committed makes a lot of sense.

So the amendment is very straightforward and very simple. It is simply tailored to allow individuals to protect themselves while at the same time respecting States rights."
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Old 07-22-2009, 01:02 PM   #7
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Thank you for that clarification, Ren. I went back and looked at the original CBS article and realized that nowhere in the article does it actually state what the amendment does, other than turning the whole country into the wild west, with packs of CCW-holding NRA members roaming the streets brandishing machine guns and menacing all the innocent liberals.

This is a damn good amendment by the way. Not only for truckers but for anyone else who does a lot of traveling, whether for business or pleasure. No more planning a travel route based on what states recognizes my permit, or stopping at rest stops at every state line to get out and load/unload and lock/unlock my weapon.
Or getting well over 100 miles into a state cause my mind is elsewhere before realizing that I'm not legal to carry there, and hopefully I don't get pulled over before I can get to a rest stop.
Or for guys who motorcycle tour...it's a little harder to lock a gun up on a bike, and it would be much safer to just be able to carry it when you get off and go inside somewhere.
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