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Old 07-28-2010, 02:47 PM   #26
Ought Six
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sd:
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"And I wish a Brit would chime in on 'not being able to feed themselves' since a couple I know IRL, seem to think they could. Not with any great variety but enough to live."
Not a chance. It takes energy to grow food, and Britain cannot survive without importing large amounts of oil. Their North Sea fields are almost played out, and would be quite vulnerable to attack in any case. No oil or food imports, food production plummets, starvation ensues quickly.
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* I have the right to live, thus I have the right to defend my life from attackers who would take it from me.
* I have the right to my private property, thus I have the right to defend my property from thieves who would take it from me.
* I have the right to self-determination, thus I have the right to defend my liberty from tyrants who would take it from me.
* The only usable tools for these tasks are guns, and thus I have the right to shoot anyone who would take my guns from me.
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Old 07-28-2010, 03:06 PM   #27
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If i remeber right the UK submarines are now fitted with windows OS.
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Old 07-28-2010, 03:09 PM   #28
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Gives 'the blue screen of death' new meaning if it decides to crash at a particularly critical moment.
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* I have the right to live, thus I have the right to defend my life from attackers who would take it from me.
* I have the right to my private property, thus I have the right to defend my property from thieves who would take it from me.
* I have the right to self-determination, thus I have the right to defend my liberty from tyrants who would take it from me.
* The only usable tools for these tasks are guns, and thus I have the right to shoot anyone who would take my guns from me.
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Old 07-28-2010, 03:25 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sandyd View Post
Need a history buff:

Is a country more at risk from within, if the citizens do not get what they want/need or from an outside enemy?

And I wish a Brit would chime in on 'not being able to feed themselves' since a couple I know IRL, seem to think they could. Not with any great variety but enough to live.
I think we could feed ourselves, but (and a huge but here) only if we got enough notice of a threat (as if thats gong to happen ). Otherwise, like 06 says most people are complacent on individual levels as well as Nationally.
On an individual level..prepping is very uncommon here, mainly due to a lack of natural disasters. There are emergency plans for food rationing at National level in event of flu epidemic and other emergency. But inreality we would do what was done in previous "wars" which would be to put land to growing. But that takes time and our population is far bigger than 60 years ago.
So the answer is..we're screwed in term of food unless shipping lanes remain open.
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Old 07-28-2010, 03:33 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by flourbug View Post
While there certainly have been territorial wars of conquest, in the last 100 years countries were taken over from within by dictators who gained power and wealth by convincing disgruntled mobs they alone could solve their economic problems.
So a military is less important other than to control the masses...from the sounds of history....
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Old 07-28-2010, 03:53 PM   #31
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ukm:
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"I think we could feed ourselves, but (and a huge but here) only if we got enough notice of a threat"
Really? You can farm, harvest, store, process and distribute the food with no fuel? Interesting. Care to explain how that could be accomplished?
----------
Quote:
"(as if thats gong to happen )"
History is replete with examples of nations that thought that way, and later paid a terrible price for it.
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* I have the right to live, thus I have the right to defend my life from attackers who would take it from me.
* I have the right to my private property, thus I have the right to defend my property from thieves who would take it from me.
* I have the right to self-determination, thus I have the right to defend my liberty from tyrants who would take it from me.
* The only usable tools for these tasks are guns, and thus I have the right to shoot anyone who would take my guns from me.
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Old 07-28-2010, 04:04 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Ought Six View Post
ukm:Really? You can farm, harvest, store, process and distribute the food with no fuel? Interesting. Care to explain how that could be accomplished?
----------History is replete with examples of nations that thought that way, and later paid a terrible price for it.
On the second point we are in agreement..One the first point, gas is not the only thing that can bring in harvest..people power is a wonderful thing...

Storing again is not such a huge issue, but the distribution is. We are a smaller nation with lots of green spaces, during the last war even Buckingham Palace gardens was turned to veggie production.

Ultimately we would need at least a year to sort this out and as thats unlikely to happen, as I said we're screwed.
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Old 07-28-2010, 04:16 PM   #33
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ukm:
Quote:
"One the first point, gas is not the only thing that can bring in harvest..people power is a wonderful thing... Storing again is not such a huge issue, but the distribution is. We are a smaller nation with lots of green spaces, during the last war even Buckingham Palace gardens was turned to veggie production. Ultimately we would need at least a year to sort this out"
Sorry, but your statement is naive in the extreme. Britain, like any other developed nation, has very large urban areas full of people who do not have clue one how to farm. Many of them are physically unable to do that kind of labor. Almost all of them are unwilling to. And the transport problem to get the food from agricultural areas to the urban areas, and to store food over the winter are completely insurmountable. And, considering how much less farmland there is now, there is not enough land to grow enough food to feed Britain's population, especially without the equipment, fuel and chemicals for modern farming methods. Even with a year's notice, there is not even a small chance that could be done.
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* I have the right to live, thus I have the right to defend my life from attackers who would take it from me.
* I have the right to my private property, thus I have the right to defend my property from thieves who would take it from me.
* I have the right to self-determination, thus I have the right to defend my liberty from tyrants who would take it from me.
* The only usable tools for these tasks are guns, and thus I have the right to shoot anyone who would take my guns from me.
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Old 07-28-2010, 04:35 PM   #34
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I suspect some might die, but if given the time, England could feed themselves with people power.

I think it's like 70% or more is green spaces that could be turned to gardens. And there are a lot of people who like to and know how to garden. And a number are good at foraging. A lot of the green spaces now are wild and have wild foods growing.

What ukmum is saying is the same thing my RL friends say. It could be done. It just would not be fun.

Yes, the population has grown but it's not like people didn't live in the UK before petrol.
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Old 07-28-2010, 04:36 PM   #35
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Although there isn't huge prepping culture, there is a huge allotment and veggie gardening culture here..even in urban areas, so I think to say thats niave is wrong.
Chicken rearing also is a verty urban thing to do, even on small plots.

This may be of some interest, the question was asked here
http://totnesedap.org.uk/book/part3/...culture-model/
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Old 07-28-2010, 04:39 PM   #36
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You two are dreaming, IMO. I could talk about the farm implements, fertilizer, soil amendments, pesticides, canning jars, salt, storage bins and whatnot that would be needed even if the populace were educated, had enough land and were capable and willing to do the work. But I see that is pointless. You are obviously wedded to this silly fantasy, so I will not bother. We will just have to agree to disagree on this point.

Too bad Alan is not around to comment on the idea of the average city dwellers turning the commons into farms that would feed the teeming millions in their cities.
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* I have the right to live, thus I have the right to defend my life from attackers who would take it from me.
* I have the right to my private property, thus I have the right to defend my property from thieves who would take it from me.
* I have the right to self-determination, thus I have the right to defend my liberty from tyrants who would take it from me.
* The only usable tools for these tasks are guns, and thus I have the right to shoot anyone who would take my guns from me.

Last edited by Ought Six; 07-28-2010 at 04:46 PM.
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Old 07-28-2010, 04:43 PM   #37
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Yes we will disagree.
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Old 07-28-2010, 05:12 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ukmum View Post
Although there isn't huge prepping culture, there is a huge allotment and veggie gardening culture here..even in urban areas, so I think to say thats niave is wrong.
Chicken rearing also is a verty urban thing to do, even on small plots.

This may be of some interest, the question was asked here
http://totnesedap.org.uk/book/part3/...culture-model/
Interesting. Did anyone ever look at the Vegan alternative I wonder....
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