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Old 05-08-2011, 03:47 PM   #201
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leistb View Post
Apathy defined.
I don't think that's apathy, really...what I think Sonny is trying to say is that nobody ever won the game by playing the same way that their opponent does...or by simply being on the defensive. If you really want to change things, you have to define the goal, and redefine the plays to get there. If you do what they expect, you will almost always lose. Obviously they expected this birth certificate to be challenged. Everyone who does so is playing their game and falling into their trap. I don't know what the trap is, but I'm pretty sure that there is one, somewhere.

Define the goal. Is it to get Obama out of office? Is it to force the government to actually start vetting candidates, so that something like this can't happen again? The tactics will be different depending on the goal. Neither goal is served by reacting to what they are doing on their terms...and this is all I see happening.

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Old 05-08-2011, 04:12 PM   #202
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Quote:
Is it to force the government to actually start vetting candidates, so that something like this can't happen again?
I believe that is the main goal. Most of the lawsuits concentrate on that issue - how are clearly ineligible candidates getting on our ballots? It is not just about Obama, but also McCain (Congress cannot declare someone an NBC. Either they are, under the law, or they are not.), Calero, and a half dozen others. We're also very concerned about the 2012 election. Again, not just Obama, but we hear Bobby Jindel and Marco Rubio's names suggested and both of them were born in the US to non-citizen parents.

Sounds easy, but it is not. For one thing George Soros has been funding the campaigns of Secretaries of State in the various states. Why? Because in most states, THEY decide who gets on the ballot. They are responsible for the actual vetting, or obtaining certification from the parties stating the party found the candidate eligible. Yet when their names appear on lawsuits, they claim they cannot turn down any recognized party's official candidate.

It would seem logical to have ONLY eligible candidates on the ballot, but a lot of effort and money is going into pumping the system full of loopholes and friendly faces.
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Old 05-08-2011, 06:03 PM   #203
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shalym View Post
I don't think that's apathy, really...what I think Sonny is trying to say is that nobody ever won the game by playing the same way that their opponent does...or by simply being on the defensive. If you really want to change things, you have to define the goal, and redefine the plays to get there. If you do what they expect, you will almost always lose. Obviously they expected this birth certificate to be challenged. Everyone who does so is playing their game and falling into their trap. I don't know what the trap is, but I'm pretty sure that there is one, somewhere.

Define the goal. Is it to get Obama out of office? Is it to force the government to actually start vetting candidates, so that something like this can't happen again? The tactics will be different depending on the goal. Neither goal is served by reacting to what they are doing on their terms...and this is all I see happening.

Shari
I don't see vetting the integrity of a BC as playing by their rules or predictably reacting to their challenge of submitting a flawed document. I look at it as them simply being arrogant.

I think the goal is clearly defined and the goal is maintaining the integrity of law -such as it is written. My reaction to Sonny's statement is because that attitude is precisely why we find ourselves in the predicament we are in today. There are enough people who think the game is rigged and therefore, "what can little 'ole me do about it" and the answer soon becomes nothing. We get what we deserve. However, with the election of Obama and ensuing shenanigans in Congress, the emergence of the Tea Party and other groups and individuals no longer willing to swallow what's being spoon fed to them forced those in power resort to name calling and labeling as extremists in an attempt to marginalize them into silence. Clearly a nerve was hit and it really didn't take all that many folks to begin to make them react. So apathy is not the path. Rather, continued pressure, questioning and the search for the truth is the only mechanism for outing them for what they are. To not do so in some form or fashion is self-emasculating.
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Old 05-09-2011, 01:45 AM   #204
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http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=295109

goodtrybarry
Janice Okubo


waiting for the explanatons from the "White House" and/or
Hawaii Health Department ...

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=295369

Takeyuki Irei


http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=295189
Karl Denninger
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Controversy surrounding Obama's birth certificate continues
Examiner.com - ‎06.05.2011‎

Obama's birth certificate is still fishy
The Augusta Chronicle - ‎Vor 1 Stunde‎

(searching google news for obama birth certificate layers)

it's mainly just WND, few doubts are reported in other newspapers or magazines
And the Obama campaign doesn't bother to answer the questions and reporters
other than WND don't bother to ask because of fear of becoming guilty of
birtherism.
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Old 05-13-2011, 11:52 PM   #205
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new poll: birthers decline

http://www.gallup.com/poll/147530/Ob...-Skeptics.aspx

they don't mention the layers, nor have I heard the WH addressing the issue
or releasing a copy without layers or showing the original

Nor did I see the press asking these questions
( except WND, of course
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=298101
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=296881
)

There seems to be some silent agreement now to not further question
this
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Old 05-14-2011, 12:42 AM   #206
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someone who seems to be trying to figure out the thing
without the usual bias towards one direction:
http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=35270
with more links there

where will peacemaker publish his summary


I contacted WH, asking them to copy/scan/photograph
without OCR or similar software (why not ?)
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Old 05-14-2011, 08:21 AM   #207
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gsgs, all explanations fall apart when it comes to the cloned letters and boxes. The chance of two pixelated characters being exactly the same are thousands to one. When a document contains numerous incidences then it goes beyond being suspect, to being proven.

Take any group of people - say, a classroom full of children, or an audience watching a movie. Have everyone bring in their birth certificate so you can document the date and time of their birth. What are the chances any two people will be born at the exact same moment, on the exact same day and year? Very slim. Now what are the chances you can find five pairs of people born at the exact same moment, day and year? Now make it 10 pairs of people. That is what we're seeing with this birth certificate. When a character is scanned it has a unique footprint. It would take thousands of tries to get two that match. The fact that Obama's document contains numerous examples of cloning is a very significant indicator of manipulation.
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Old 05-14-2011, 12:14 PM   #208
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birthday_problem

Birthday problem
Quote:
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
In probability theory, the birthday problem pertains to the probability that in a set of randomly chosen people some pair of them will have the same birthday. The probability reaches 100% when the number of people reaches 367 (including February 29 births), but perhaps counter-intuitively, 99% probability is reached with just 57 people, and 50% probability with 23 people. These conclusions are based on the assumption that each day of the year (except February 29) is equally probable for a birthday.



The Poisson approximation is:



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Old 05-14-2011, 01:36 PM   #209
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Yup, two people sharing the same birthday is not unusual, which is why I said, born at the same moment on the same day and year.
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Old 05-14-2011, 06:32 PM   #210
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Any president who cannot make good forgeries after
3 years in the job is not fit to hold office .
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Old 05-14-2011, 06:42 PM   #211
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What worries me about this pres is that his pattern is: wait until all your advisors have been hammering on you to do something for a while, then finally cave in. I think this has driven his entire presidency. Including health care reform, and the raid on UBL's compound.

It probably also explains the odd timing of the release of the fake birth certificate, 3 yrs into his presidency. His aides tell him to do something for weeks and months on end, and if the noise gets loud enough, Obama gets off the golf course and gets on board what he then perceives to be a "decision" the public will applaud him for. That's Obama's presidency so far.
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Old 05-15-2011, 12:28 PM   #212
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didn't they say the software does it ?
Trying to optimize
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Old 05-15-2011, 01:14 PM   #213
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gsgs, they are saying whatever they think will make the voters believe the BC is legitimate.
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Old 05-26-2011, 08:00 AM   #214
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wnd says:

Trump declares Obama's birth certificate fake


http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=303181


although I don't see him exactly saying that:
Trump asked Corsi about the book, its evidence and what is happening
next in the effort to document whether Obama is, in fact, constitutionally
qualified for the presidency under Article 2, Section 1's "natural born citizen"
requirement Trump said his period of almost-complete silence on the issue
following the release by the White House on April 27 of the image of a
"Certificate of Live Birth" from the state of Hawaii was not because he was
satisfied with the document.
I always said I wanted to know if it was real," Trump told Corsi.

"back in the race" (suggests Corsi or suggests Corsi that
Trump hinted ?)
no direct comment from Trump

----------------------------------------
Asked if there's any chance he'll jump in later in the race, Trump replied, "I can't rule out anything ... [It's] vital that we choose the right person, and at this moment, I don't see that person."

UPDATE: Asked about Trump's comments on "Fox & Friends," Michael Cohen, an executive at the Trump Organization who doubles as Trump's chief political adviser, told ABC News, "The statement speaks for itself and Mr. Trump has no additional comment at this time."

------------------------------------------------
intrade:

Trump president ~0.6%
Trump Rep.nominee ~0.2%

other bookmakers:
http://www.bookies.com/politics/usa/...ng-candidate/#

(they removed Trump from the list ?!)
---------------------------------
Trump seemed uninterested in jumping back into the media fray over the issue, Corsi said.
----------------------------------
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Old 05-26-2011, 08:33 AM   #215
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^ That's a very good article. I was expecting Trump to be blathering gibberish, but it makes valid points and includes expert testimony.
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Old 05-27-2011, 04:38 AM   #216
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Donald Trump says conspiracy theory author Jerome Corsi lied when he said the reality television star believes Obama's long-form birth certificate is a forgery.


it was the headline at WND and Huffington post
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Old 05-27-2011, 05:01 AM   #217
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says Trump:
> Is his birth certificate legitimate? I hope it is for the good of the country, but that’s for experts
> to determine—not me. I have not read the book written by Jerry Corsi nor did we discuss
> whether or not the birth certificate was computer generated or in any way fabricated.
> I merely asked him how his book was doing and wished him good luck

so much for Corsi's reliability ...

wnd's story on this:
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=303721


writes wnd:
> Corsi says Trump repeated a conversation he had weeks ago in a conference call
> with WND Editor and Chief Executive Officer Joseph Farah
> Farah confirms Trump questioned the authenticity

"questioned", even if he did, is not "Trump declares Obama's birth certificate fake"

> Farah wonders aloud why Trump would ask for a copy of a book he had no intention
> of reading – even going to the extent of having his organization sign a non-disclosure
> agreement to get an early electronic copy.

that's easy. Books are usually looong. You won't read a whole book but rather look
for interesting passages or use the alphabetic index to find things

Farah and Corsi say:
> Trump said he was considering renewing his calls for Obama to establish his eligibility,
> but wanted more to go on.

I wonder whether Trump confirms this ...
And why then formulate it so differently in the previous wnd article

> Farah says these words from Trump stand out in Corsi's notes of their last conversation:
> "Call me before you do anything. I want to know before you do it."

I think Trump is afraid of being victim again to the birther-ridiculing movement, so he
became a secret birther


Read more: Trump denies reading book he signed agreement to get http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=303721#ixzz1NXd7wLdy

-------------------------

http://motherjones.com/mojo/2011/05/...e-jerome-corsi
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Old 05-29-2011, 08:54 AM   #218
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I found these 2 links:

http://www.hackerfactor.com/blog/ind...ter-Birth.html

http://www.scribd.com/doc/55642721/N...h-is-a-forgery


hopefully Corsi will address the counterarguments and they will
not just "discuss" by writing articles on their blogs/webpages while ignoring
other argument (except for ridicule)


32 google-hits for the first link:
http://www.google.com/search?q=http:...iw=963&bih=572

37 google-hits for the 2nd
http://www.google.com/search?q=http:...iw=963&bih=572



analysis by Douglas Vogt
http://www.vectorpub.com/Obamas_cert...20Realease.pdf
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Old 06-03-2011, 11:00 AM   #219
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turns out that Obama sr. apparantly gave a wrong birthdate/age.

Is that the embarassing detail why Obama tried to prevent/delay
the release ?
No big deal, jr. ! (IMO) Main thing is that you were born. (in USA)
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Old 02-29-2012, 05:17 PM   #220
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Default Media finally paying attention to eligibility?

Media finally paying attention to eligibility?

http://www.wnd.com/2012/02/media-fin...o-eligibility/
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Old 02-29-2012, 05:27 PM   #221
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Arrow

The MSM could care less about eligibility. They will be there looking for material they can use to paint Sheriff Joe Arpaio as a nut case, and nothing more than that.
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Old 03-01-2012, 04:16 PM   #222
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Default Arpaio: Forgery

Source:

Quote:
“A six-month long investigation conducted by my cold case posse has lead me to believe there is probable cause to believe that President Barack Obama’s long-form birth certificate released by the White House on April 27, 2011, is a computer-generated forgery,” the long-time sheriff, who has regularly battled the administration, said.
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Old 03-01-2012, 04:19 PM   #223
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Live feed that is MUCH better than the WND site:

http://www.abc15.com/generic/news/live-video
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Old 03-01-2012, 04:52 PM   #224
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No surprises. All of this information has been out there for quite some time.

I do not know why they involved WND and Jerome Corsi in the investigation or the news conference. I think it blew all their credibility right out of the water. Both are associated with "birthers" and sensationalism, while this investigation should have been 100% professional and miles removed from any commericial media, with only their own independent top investigators and experts in document forensics.

In any case, it does bring the BC back into the news... so they can:

"paint Sheriff Joe Arpaio as a nut case, and nothing more" ~ 06
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Old 03-01-2012, 05:01 PM   #225
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Didn't I read someplace that the Country of origin for the father was Kenya and Kenya didn't even exist till 2 yrs afterthe supposed birth?
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