Obama declares support for gay marriage

sandyd · 05-09-2012, 05:27 PM

http://gma.yahoo.com/obama-announces...-marriage.html

Are that many in the USA for it that this gets him points?

Twoolf · 05-09-2012, 05:58 PM

There are many that will change their minds just because he supports it. There are three very contentious questions that have been very muddied because of the religious right; Abortion, Gay Marriage, and very soon the national discussion will be focused on right to die issues. Invariably on all these issues, a religious component is inserted into what is a secular discussion. At some point, the politicians have to have the guts to say that "if your religion forbids it, don't do it, but quit trying to tell everyone else how to live". My brother, who used to go hog hunting with me, and helped me cure hams and bacon, and ate a BUNCH of it, now has converted to Judaism and condemns me frequently for eating pork. Its his choice to adhere to an antiquated theology, not mine. There has to be a point where a clear distinction is made between civil law and personal choice in religious matters. Personally I don't care who you marry or have sex with. I just don't want to watch you connsumate it.

Sysiphus · 05-09-2012, 07:00 PM

As Twoolf notes, there is no rational, non-religious reason to treat gay marriage and heterosexual marriage differently. The courts acknowledged long ago that sex need not be procreative, and that, barring incest, the government cannot peer behind the bedroom door as long as there are consenting adults. I will not be surprised if the Supremes rule California's Prop 8 unconstitutional, upholding the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals. The Romer decision, which was decided by a court with a very similar composition to the current one, supports this.

Now, to be the devil's advocate, why not polygamy? What is the State's rational basis for prohibiting it if it involves consenting adults? To say that it is unfair to women (in the typical multi-wife situation) is patronizing to the women involved, and certain not a rational objection.

Glockd · 05-09-2012, 07:44 PM

Hey, good, he shored up the Scientology vote.

(John Travolta Joke)

CanadaSue · 05-09-2012, 07:50 PM

Allowing marriage to recognize same sex couples, allowing abortion, allowing polygamy - BETWEEN CONSENTING ADULTS & right to die; heck let's throw in birth control while we're at it...

does not mandate ANYBODY to engage in any of these practices if it's against their personal or community/church mores. It simply allows for CHOICE.

Twoolf · 05-09-2012, 08:13 PM

There was s story about an old lady who complained to the police about her neighbor walking around his house naked. When the police got there the found the "offenders" house quite some ways away, which no normal person could have seen what the guy was doing. When questioned further they asked her how she could see what he was doing since he was so far away. She was proud to respond she used binoculars. I guess the moral is that you can only be offended if you go out of your way to be. If everyone would just mind their own business, instead of trying to tell others how to live, the country would be a lot better off

dyrt · 05-09-2012, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sandyd

http://gma.yahoo.com/obama-announces...-marriage.html

Are that many in the USA for it that this gets him points?

It gets him money and media support. He made some promises to rich Gays, many in L.A. back when he was campaigning for president and has not kept them. The Gay lobby has been putting a lot of pressure on him and some cut off the money. After extensive polling and negotiations, Obama made his statement today.

His announcement has nothing to do with his personal beliefs. In fact, most people who call themselves "black" are against it, especially "black" churches.

As Richard Fernandez has said, 'there are players and there are tools.' A lot of Gays and "blacks" are nothing but tools to be discarded when Obama is through using them.

Twoolf · 05-09-2012, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sysiphus

Now, to be the devil's advocate, why not polygamy? What is the State's rational basis for prohibiting it if it involves consenting adults? To say that it is unfair to women (in the typical multi-wife situation) is patronizing to the women involved, and certain not a rational objection.

Interesting question. Right off the top of my head I can't think of a single biological reason why not, and the one polygamous family I have ever met was very well adjusted, the children much loved and well cared for. They were home schooled and were probably 3-4 years ahead of their peers.

That said, it probably takes a very special set of people to make it work without jealousey, tension, and negative effects on the kids. The legal problems in a "divorce" could be interesting too. A simple marraige is hard enough: Polyandry would have its own unique set of permutations and problems. MMF, MFF, MMFF, MFFF, MMFFF? My head starts to ache.

Feather · 05-09-2012, 09:23 PM

A friend used to be in a polyandry relationship. In his case it was two couples living together and sharing each other. In the end it broke up one marriage, my friend and his wife, and almost broke up the other. Friend's wife got jealous and so did the other husband. In some cases it may work but in theirs it all fell apart.

I personally could not be in any type of relationship other than a monogamous one.

CanadaSue · 05-09-2012, 10:35 PM

Me either.

Malcolm · 05-10-2012, 03:18 AM

Obama will come back down to earth and discover the "ONLY" election issue that the people will vote on in big numbers is the economy and jobs.
Same thing is happening here in Australia . We will not vote for "poofters" who dont care about "poverty"

Sysiphus · 05-10-2012, 03:18 AM

I think you mean polyamory. Polyandry means multiple hubbies and one wife.

Feather · 05-10-2012, 05:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sysiphus

I think you mean polyamory. Polyandry means multiple hubbies and one wife.

Ok, I wasn't sure there was a different word for it. Thanks, I'll try to remember it.

I'd like two husbands, one for indoor work and one for outside work.

Oric · 05-10-2012, 08:52 AM

gami (gineka) - woman (gr)
andropos - man (gr)
amor - love (la)

sandyd · 05-10-2012, 11:26 AM

There are people who do aim to hook up in nontraditional ways like that. More males or more females and even equal numbers of each.
I think break ups happen as often as in normal marriages. Just dividing stuff up can be more messy.

veggiecanner · 05-10-2012, 12:26 PM

The question you have to ask yourself is why is he trying to throw the race?

Mama Alanna · 05-10-2012, 12:37 PM

DD#1 brought up an interesting question re polyamory. Let's say you have a man married to two women. He's in a serious accident and on life support. He has no advance directives, no "living will", no Power of Attorney for Healthcare, so his wishes are not known. Wife #1 says "Pull the plug" and Wife #2 says "No, keep him on life support and maybe he'll get better." Which wife do the doctors listen to?

Glockd · 05-10-2012, 12:43 PM

The one with the bigger tits!

Catbird · 05-10-2012, 01:03 PM

For the international perspective.

"For or against: A look at world leaders' stance on gay marriage"

Quote:

"Homosexuality remains illegal in much of the world and only 10 countries -- Argentina, Belgium, Canada, Iceland, the Netherlands, Norway, Portugal, Spain, South Africa, and Sweden -- allow same-sex marriage. A look at stances taken by some other leaders...".

sandyd · 05-10-2012, 01:26 PM

That already happens with the adult children - one says 'do all you can' and the other(s) can say 'pull the plug'.

All will be done to save him until all agree to pull the plug.

At least from what I've seen and ICU friends have seen.

---------- Post added at 10:26 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:25 AM ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by veggiecanner

The question you have to ask yourself is why is he trying to throw the race?

His 'handlers' told him too? (I do suspect 'they' are real but if not...)

He will make more money as a former pres doing speaking and meetings than he does now.

Kassy · 05-10-2012, 01:30 PM

But it exists everywhere all the time so in 2012 we should allow individuals the right to be themselves.

dyrt · 05-10-2012, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by veggiecanner

The question you have to ask yourself is why is he trying to throw the race?

He had not other choice and thinks he can overcome the lost voters.

The Washington Post reported that 20% of his main money bundlers are gay. There are a lot of gays in the media of all kinds. He might have been a victim of extortion.

sandyd · 05-10-2012, 09:56 PM

You know what dyrt? That would not bother me at all.

dyrt · 05-10-2012, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sandyd

You know what dyrt? That would not bother me at all.

I don't care what he does in his spare time and it is not like Obama is foreign to extortion. That is the Chicago way. I think all politicians are extorted in one way or another.

I just wish we would get this marriage debate behind us. Same sex marriage is inevitable.

Mama Alanna · 05-10-2012, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sandyd

That already happens with the adult children - one says 'do all you can' and the other(s) can say 'pull the plug'.

All will be done to save him until all agree to pull the plug.

But if a wife says "Pull the plug" and the children say "no", doesn't the wife's order override the children's?