Turkish jet downed by Syrian air defenses

[Catbird]

Oopsie!

"Syria apologizes for taking down Turkish warplane: Turkish PM"

"Syrian authorities have apologized for taking down a military plane that had lost contact with the Turkish Armed Forces earlier today, Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan said.

The plane was taken down by Syrian forces, an official Turkish source confirmed to Hürriyet Daily News.

The pilots of a crashed Turkish military plane have been rescued by forces, daily Hürriyet reported.
The pilots, who are in good health, were located in the Mediterranean Sea."

[Oric]

For the record it is an F-4, the pilots are alive

[NowVoyager]

Seeing as I haven't any reference on the nature of relations between Turkey and Syria, what sort of impact will this have and or might there have been some motivation for Syria to do this?

[Catbird]

This situation is still developing. Reuters, via Twitter, is now quoting Turkish TV as saying:

"Update: Turkish PM says he cannot say whether Turkish military plane was shot down or crashed, no news on pilots - Turkish TV via @Reuters

Turkish PM says he has no firm information on any apology from Syria, will make further statement after security meeting - @Reuters

[Oric]

Russia, Israel, Syria, iran, Turkey and USA (incirlik NATO base is just 100 miles away) .. Quite a complicated situation

Rumours : Syria mistakenly downed the planes for being Israeli
Russians warned Turkey for not interpreting this for an excuse to go to war with Syria

Etc.

[Catbird]

Originally Posted by NowVoyager

Seeing as I haven't any reference on the nature of relations between Turkey and Syria, what sort of impact will this have and or might there have been some motivation for Syria to do this?

That kind of depends on your perspective.

For a number of years, up until last summer, Erdogan and Assad had a nice little bromance going. They referred to each other as brothers; they eliminated or minimized visa requirements between the 2 countries; there were joint cabinet meetings, and all kinds of economic and diplomatic cooperation.

Then came the Arab Spring. Syrian protestors were a little late to the game but by late summer, the protest movement and opposition was in full swing and Assad started his crack-down actions. At the same time, Erdogan made a major tour of the Middle East/Arab Spring countries. Media at the time referred to his popularity on this tour as having "rock star status", as he portrayed himself, and Turkey, as the model of a "secular, democratic government" - one that Arab Spring countries fresh from revolt should adopt. His popularity was also reinforced by his aggressive anti-Israel stance.

Erdogan had made some mildly critical comments about Assad's repressive actions during the summer. But it wasn't until that tour, when Erdogan was being cheered by crowds of people fresh from successful Arab Spring revolts, that he started to make comments that overtly condemned Assad's increasing brutality. Not surprisingly, those comments played well to the crowds and increased his popularity. So much for the bromance.

Since then, relations have seemingly deteriorated. Erdogan has tried to position himself as a strong supporter of the Syrian opposition, making lots of statements, providing support for refugees, etc. But, at the same time, he's been keeping some ties with Assad open. This allows Turkey to be a conduit of diplomatic efforts by other countries to get Assad to change his ways.

So Turkey is playing on both sides of the fence. Whether this incident causes Erdogan to take some decisive action is probably most dependent on his deciding how much political advantage doing something, or not doing something, will give him and Turkey.

Other people will have a different perspective and of course, their MMV.

[Oric]

Originally Posted by NowVoyager

Seeing as I haven't any reference on the nature of relations between Turkey and Syria, what sort of impact will this have and or might there have been some motivation for Syria to do this?

Yesterday a Syrian Mig 21 defected to Turkey, might be a response to that, anyway the tension is stable for tle last couple of hours

If you are asking about the politics side, Catbird has made a good summary Of how it is portrayed in MSWM, really Syria - Iran Shia axis is trying to be broken by United States to push Iran into a deeper corner, Turkey is tried to be used as the tool of doing that, let us see how this grand plan is going to played out

[Sonny]

Was the F4 over Syrian territory when they were shot down? if so why was it there?

[Catbird]

I don't think anyone really knows yet... except Syria and maybe Turkey and neither have confirmed an exact location.

[Oric]

Our silence confirms that our plane was not exactly flying in the right air space

[Oric]

After 12 hours, still no official news or report on the issue .. Fascinating

[Potemkin]

Shi'ite is really heating up.

[Oric]

Official announcement : "plane shot down by Syria, necessary actions will be taken"

Meaning : nothing

[Catbird]

Reuters via Twitter:

Turkey says 'it is understood' that Syria shot down Turkish jet fighter - PM's office statement via @Reuters

More: PM's office statement says Turkey will take all of the necessary measures 'decisively' once all the details of the incident emerge - @Reuters

More: Search and rescue operation for missing pilots is still continuing - Turkey PM's office via @Reuters

[Oric]

Turkish and US foreign ministers recieving the news

[dyrt]

Originally Posted by Oric

If you are asking about the politics side, Catbird has made a good summary Of how it is portrayed in MSWM, really Syria - Iran Shia axis is trying to be broken by United States to push Iran into a deeper corner, Turkey is tried to be used as the tool of doing that, let us see how this grand plan is going to played out

Catbird left out the part that Turkey opened their border to Syrian refugees and hold them in camps . . . probably saving thousands. In addition, Turkey has allowed the rebels to camp in Turkey so they can meet, plan and launch raids. Turkey is where the Britian, US, Saudia Arabia, Qatar etc. meet, train and plan with the rebels. The above mentioned countries' special operation soldiers are also crossing the Turkey border to enter Syria. The Syrian dictator has plenty of reason to be upset with Turkey.

Saudi Arabia and Israel are the main proponents of breaking off their Iranian client states. I wish that the US was using Turkey and others as tools but that is not the case. Obama has become the tool of the Saudi Arabians. Turkey is going to play both sides and the middle to advance their imperialism. All this mess is a good opportunity for Turkey and they will be calm, cunning and get their revenge at the time of their choice. The loss of the aircraft will be quickly swept under the rug.

[Catbird]

via Twitter:

Syrian military says it shot down Turkish fighter jet 'over Syrian territorial waters' - @Reuters

Turkey does have a habit of violating the airspace of other countries. Just ask Greece and Cyprus.

[Auburn Boy]

Originally Posted by Catbird

Oopsie!

"Syria apologizes for taking down Turkish warplane: Turkish PM"

I guess the SYrians have caught a does of "itchy triger finger."

[Brihard]

Originally Posted by Catbird

Turkey does have a habit of violating the airspace of other countries. Just ask Greece and Cyprus.

Yup, a fair point.

[Catbird]

Details about the location of the plane, from Syrian sources.

Reuters via Yahoo:

"A statement by the Syrian military said the Turkish plane was flying low, just one kilometer off the Syrian coast, when it was hit by anti-aircraft fire. The plane fell in Syrian waters 10-kms (seven miles) west of the village of Um al-Touyour."

[Brihard]

Originally Posted by Catbird

Details about the location of the plane, from Syrian sources.

Reuters via Yahoo:

Sounds like a reconnaissance profile mission if this is accurate.

[Catbird]

Originally Posted by Brihard

Sounds like a reconnaissance profile mission if this is accurate.

Yep. The map shows "Om al Toyour" to be a good 20+ km inside Syrian territory. That's too far past the border for it to be pilot/navigation error. And flying 1 km off the coast of a country is asking for trouble.

[Oric]

The general understanding in Turkish public today is we are being dragged into a war we don't want or need ..

A lot of comments on Russia, US and Iran ..

[Oric]

Very much related

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/BGO...6/21/id/443086

[dyrt]

Originally Posted by Oric

Very much related

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/BGO...6/21/id/443086

lol. Obama is not likely to do anything that McCain says. And Obama is even less likely to escalate the US activity in Syria because of the election. He is probably very nervous about the current US actions blowing up in his face. Of course, my opinion is based on the hope that there is still some sanity in the White House. The campaign has had a lot of stuff blow up on them lately.