Two-page list of people possibly missing after roof collapses at northern Ontario mall

[rb.]

This is my neck of the woods. Parking on TOP of the mall. Local word is there have been complaints of maitanence issues for years...every time it rained or snowed there were leaks. This town has a huge senior population, as it's a former uranium mining town, that had to rebrand itself after the mining stopped, so they sold themselves as a cheap retirement town. Everyone's holding their breath, just too many missing.


http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...rticle4366299/

[flourbug]

Awful. Just awful.

[Mama Alanna]

The mall is considered by many local residents to be an important community hub. It houses one of the town's few grocery stores, restaurants, a number of retail outlets and the constituency office for NDP MPP Michael Mantha.

Did the teens hang out there too? Mine did. I can't help but wonder if there are parents flipping out all over the area because all they know is that their kids were hanging out 'somewhere' with their buddies and said teens haven't checked in.

[CanadaSue]

Apparently that mall had a history of maintenance issues with that roof. I haven't checked the details but flooding of spaces below the roof during heavy rain, etc.

This could get ugly.

[rb.]

Yeah, ugly ain't the word for it. Still no rescue action, unfreakingbelievable. Not safe to search for people. God help Vancouver if they have the big one. Lineup for the lawsuits.

[CanadaSue]

rb - I just caught news headlines on Newsworld before their documentary.

They suspect they have one dead down there, POSSIBLY one trapped, (condition unreported) & nine missing.

[rb.]

Yeah, local forum reporting tapping WAS heard earlier. Apparently the death has been confirmed ONLY because they can see a hand and foot sticking out from under a concrete slab. I can't believe it's been 32 hours, and still no rescue. Given that it's a former mining community, with Ontario's largest mining city as the closest city, you'd think SOMEWHERE up here there would be rescue capable of dealing with this. Christ. Are we not in N. America?

[CanadaSue]

No kidding - no retired draegermen willing to take the risk? Betcha there are & the province &city don't want the publicity or lawsuits should any of them get hurt or worse. I say let them try if they have the training & are willing to take that risk.

[rb.]

Wow. Rescue crew has left. As in left town. Despite more tapping today, no official rescue. Ministry of Labour said no. Mall owner begging them to rescue. Family, friends, townspeople gathering in the blocked off downtown area, ready to go in themselves. If they're not allowed (which they won't be), there will very likely be a riot.

And amazingly, up to 30 people trapped or dead in a shopping mall, after more than 48 hours, hasn't made the news outside of Canada. Must be an election year in the US, eh?

Welcome to the Northern Ontario treatment. It's not just natives treated like third class citizens. if this was happening in Toronto, or somewhere in the US, you could be damned sure of wall to wall media coverage, and rescuers wouldn't leave.

[CanadaSue]

THIRTY???

Good Lord - I've been away all day & crazy busy here until a little while ago. All I saw was tha it was deemed 'unsafe' to permit any rescue attempt.

I can't for a minute seeing townspeople & outside volunteers not saying: "To hell with that - there are people alive down there!" & trying anyway.

[rb.]

They just reported that McGuinty has stepped in and over-ridden Ministry of Labour, search back on. Jesus. Mall owner was begging for it to continue, and appealed to McGuinty. Apparently about 50 people started protesting at city hall tonight, as well. What a f$&@ing circus. Ridiculous. Could you imagine having family in there?

[CanadaSue]

I just caught that headline on CTV, thank goodness. It may not be 'safe' but they'll do their best to do what they have to do without endangering the rescuers.

I acn't stand McGuinty's politics but kudos to him for having some stones here. If trained rescuers want to VOLUNTEER, with full knowledge of the potential risks - okay - get 'er done.

[Catbird]

Originally Posted by rb.

Wow. Rescue crew has left. As in left town. Despite more tapping today, no official rescue. Ministry of Labour said no. Mall owner begging them to rescue. Family, friends, townspeople gathering in the blocked off downtown area, ready to go in themselves. If they're not allowed (which they won't be), there will very likely be a riot.

And amazingly, up to 30 people trapped or dead in a shopping mall, after more than 48 hours, hasn't made the news outside of Canada. Must be an election year in the US, eh?

Welcome to the Northern Ontario treatment. It's not just natives treated like third class citizens. if this was happening in Toronto, or somewhere in the US, you could be damned sure of wall to wall media coverage, and rescuers wouldn't leave.

I've been reading about it but only from Canadian media. I haven't seen a single thing on it from any other source. And that's a pretty sad statement of where humanity is at these days.

I was shocked when they called off the search and rescue when there was still obvious signs of life. I can't imagine being a family member in that situation. No one would be able to stop me from going in there if I thought my family was trapped and no one was doing anything about it.

[rb.]

More info here, including some pics, and the video from inside. Owner was trying to get an injunction to stop the rescue retreat. Amazing the Premiere decided to ok the return after that legal threat, eh?

http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/06...medium=twitter

[flourbug]

Looking at that one video I am amazed it wasn't immediately cleaned up. That is not a huge amount of debris, compared to the damage from an earthquake or tornado.

[CanadaSue]

There's one still alive down there. Equipment is picking up the sound of breathing.

It does look small, doesn't it?

---------- Post added at 08:03 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:03 AM ----------

The news photos of distraught friends & relatives is tough to look at.

[rb.]

article details townspeople with mining experience ready to go in, local tempers flaring in reaction to end of rescue, and the Prime Minister authorizing use of the army.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...rticle4370097/


fb, IIRC, the area that collapsed is 40 x 80 feet. That said, I think the whole building is now considered unstable.

[Catbird]

The number of missing has come down, thankfully.

via Twitter:

"12 still unaccounted for in collapsed Ontario mall, police say - @CBCNews"

[sandyd]

Volunteer rescue goes down into trapped and caved in MINES. Others volunteer to go after people on mountains in the snow.

No one should be forced to do that job-there is a lot to be said for not making me risk my life if it's not safe. But people will volunteer and should be allowed to.

Sign a waver and go do it.

[rb.]

Sandyd, they are an URBAN search and rescue team from outside of Toronto. URBAN rescue, to me, would be buildings, bridges, and subway tunnels. If you ask me, not having a general plan for a PARTIALLY collapsed building is a failure in the organization's planning. I don't want to see dead responders, I want to see the organization, that undoubtedly receives 100% public funding, ABLE to do the job they exist to do.

What is not realized by outsiders is that northern Ontario doesn't exist in the eyes of southern Ontario, and Toronto (the largest Canadian city, and our provincial capital). You can bet uour ass that if this had happened in Toronto, we wouldn't be goinginto the fourth day,with little yo no action. And they sure as hell wouldn't have made the decision to END the rescue effort, knowing someone was alive, if they'd been in Toronto. We're all equal, but some are more equal than others.

[sandyd]

So because TPTB don't 'see' your area, no one from those areas who could do the job, have come to do the job?

WTF not?

I'd think people who trained for it would be at your doorsteps or rather, at the site.

It seems pretty awful to leave people tapping till they die. *shudder*

[rb.]

From comments at G&M

This is Dalton's Walkerton,

the whole system is one lazy Timmie' sippin , clipboard carrying self important BLOATED WHALE.

[rb.]

The Elliot Lake situation is a national embarrassment

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/comme...rticle4375559/

[sandyd]

So how are they going to clean it up and get the bodies out?

[rb.]

They have two bodies out (yesterday), and TPTB don't believe there are any more. I would expect it will just be a flat out demolition of the whole building from here on in. Malls with exposed parking on top, in climates that require winter salt use, don't mix.