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Old 07-20-2017, 04:56 PM   #26
Potemkin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glockd View Post
No one is changing the threshold. Had the Soviets pushed into the Fulda Gap with overwhelming forces we could not hope to stop or delay long enough for REFORGER to arrive from the US, nukes would have been used. Same doctrine, different terrain.
Came to say this.

This is why Administrations and President both Democratic and Republican always say something like "All options are on the table" or "no options are off the table" or "we won't discuss our response continuum". (Depending how doveish or hawkish they want to sound or whether they are escalating or deescalating.)

There are scenarios, and not just "launch them all TEOTWAWKI" type scenarios where the response will be some type of nuclear weapon. (Why "dial a yield" was developed.)

GlockD mentions one and there are others.
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Old 07-21-2017, 09:37 AM   #27
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Quote:
US Urges All Nationals In North Korea To "Depart Immediately",
Bans Tourists From Visiting
Quote:
Koryo Tours and Young Pioneer Tours said the ban would be
announced on 27 July to come into effect 30 days later, the BBC reported.
"After the 30-day grace period any US national that travels to
North Korea will have their passport invalidated by their government."
Full article found here



..
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Old 07-21-2017, 09:41 AM   #28
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The U.S. Will reportedly put a BAN on travel into NK using U.S. passports, reports the associated press.

Tightening the noose..,

http://start.att.net/news/read/categ...ling_to_n-ap-2
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Old 07-21-2017, 09:45 AM   #29
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Interesting to see if NK will now take hostages ?

Then again , with Trumps trigger known to be on the trigger
only a total optimist would be a USA tourist in NK at this
moment .

..
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Old 07-21-2017, 10:11 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glockd View Post
No one is changing the threshold. Had the Soviets pushed into the Fulda Gap with overwhelming forces we could not hope to stop or delay long enough for REFORGER to arrive from the US, nukes would have been used. Same doctrine, different terrain.
Yes, but it should take that level of force from the North Koreans. That's been the policy for decades now.

Which I do not think the North Koreans are going to do on their own.
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Old 07-21-2017, 10:37 AM   #31
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I may be naive, but my sense is that anyone who uses nukes first, especially when their sovereign nation is not under attack, will be a global pariah and seen as in need of regime change.
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Old 07-21-2017, 02:20 PM   #32
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Again, the NORKS are the invaders and aggressors. To PREVENT mass civilian casualties in South Korea, Nukes would be used to PREVENT loss of life - same argument as WWII and a good message to Iran.

I am looking at early next week (for obvious reasons).
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Old 07-21-2017, 02:48 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Auburn Boy View Post
.

Tightening the noose..,
I wouldn't call it that... More a matter of things are difficult enough without America having to deal with these idiots who go there and get themselves arrested by the Norks to be used as bargaining chips. That's an unwelcome and unneeded complication.
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Old 07-21-2017, 09:58 PM   #34
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Look, I have been to Korea, I know the terrain and the climate. It wont be slipping into a nice warm mummy bag for a nights sleep. It will be sleeping under a poncho liner in a hole in the ground that may or may not have standing water, freezing your ass off, trying to stop a mass horde, while trying to hold on long enough to evac civies.

While you are doing this, hundreds, if not thousands of artillery tubes, imbedded in mountains, will be laying waste to evac routes, supply routes, population centers, etc.

Plus mortars and mobile rocket artillery, from small truck towed units to larger SCUD types.

It is going to be hell on earth, much worse than Iraq of A-Stan.

We can stop them cold, but it will take Dial-A-Yield nukes.

Either that, or we lose Seoul and millions of skittles, along with the troops.
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Old 07-21-2017, 10:07 PM   #35
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I just can't imagine anyone having the balls to do it. That would be twice the US has unleashed the power of the atom and it's associated nastiness on "people of color". You'd have a hard time convincing a large number of people on the planet that WE can be trusted with nukes.
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Old 07-21-2017, 11:23 PM   #36
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Quote:
Again, the NORKS are the invaders and aggressors. To PREVENT mass civilian casualties in South Korea, Nukes would be used to PREVENT loss of life - same argument as WWII and a good message to Iran.
Are the North Koreans invading somewhere ? Did I miss something ? Testing missiles and new weapons is what all nations do. You recently tested a laser weapon. Do we have to assume that you are an invader and an aggressor ? There is a constant threat of ending the cease fire since 1954. Something fundamental about the situation must change to justify it depending on South Korea.

When has Iran attacked (first) and invaded some land in the past a few hundred years ?

What Iran and NK have in common is that they dpn't bow and give in to US pressure. If you are gonna nuke them, that is what th world will think. Except for a few nations who will benefit and applause.
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Old 07-22-2017, 02:39 AM   #37
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I predict that 2 years from now that not much will have changed. I don't see any country as having the resources to care for the NK people after a war.
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Old 07-22-2017, 11:19 AM   #38
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All of this is the same logic that brings us continuously to a progressively worse situation.

Now, you might be looking at the start of "appeasement". We do not want a war, war is bad, people will die, give him more time, maybe there will be a change in leadership, Perhaps Dennis Rodman could help Fatboy see the error of killing millions?

We are repeating the mistakes of the past. It is us who are guilty of the future genocide by not having the moral fortitude to take action to prevent the obvious from occurring.

Those who do nothing are as guilty as those who commit atrocities.
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Old 07-22-2017, 11:33 AM   #39
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What Iran and North Korea have in common is that they are brutal sadistic fucking regimes that place zero value on human life and murder indiscriminately, just because they got the itch. They spread terrorism like a disease. When both regimes are wiped from the earth, the planet will breathe so much easier. But Oric, you go on pretending this shit does not exist, does not happen, and keep your fuckin head in the sand.

Me, Ill be glad to kill them wholesale as soon as humanly possible, and I'll sleep like a baby when I'm done.

I'm a fuckin gun bunny, a grunt, I carry a rifle and go forth, or at least I did, and am still ready and willing to do so again. I have willingly put my ass in harms way with a fuckin smile on my face. I don't like nukes, their very existence voids my very reason for being. But if nuking a bunch of shithead reds or islamofucks prevents a shit ton of skittles from getting killed, count me in. Hell, I'll sit on the fucker and light the goddamn fuse. My life is forfeit when it comes to the safety of those skittles. And I'll die a very happy man in the process.
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Old 07-22-2017, 12:29 PM   #40
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Andy I doubt most people really want war, even the ones advocating for turning Pyongyang into a glass parking lot. If lil Kim is removed from power what then? Who steps in as dear leaders replacement? IMHO if lil Kim is taken out the population will want revenge and the region will become more unstable than it already is. If lil Kim suffers an "accident" the population will mourn but carry on peacefully.

Have you ever noticed that when NK isn't talked about on CNN or Fox for several weeks lil Kim does something to get them talking. It strokes his ego. Negative attention is better than no attention. I wonder what would happen if the news started talking about NK in a positive way. Would his behavior change because he no longer needed to launch a missile to be talked about or would he continue on his current path?
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Old 07-22-2017, 12:47 PM   #41
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He executes people with a goddamned anti-aircraft weapon, he is a psychopath (and not the good kind, like me) who deserves no quarter. Turn that little shit in to a bad memory and press on.
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