Go Back   This Blue Marble, a Global Current Events Discussion Forum > Health and Medicine > Medical News

Medical News News, information and discussions about health issues, medicine and biotechnology.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 09-22-2015, 01:32 AM   #1
Pablo Escobar
Senior Level 1
 
Pablo Escobar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,851
Thanks: 59
Thanked 276 Times in 145 Posts
Default Aphantasia - What mind's eye are you talking about?

Since I'm posting cool stuff about me tonight, I recently saw this article, which describes my life long mental defect to a T.

The lack of a minds eye, i.e. I cannot visualize anybody or thing, even me, my wife, or children, much less a friggen banana...

My 24 year old son says he has the sme thing, just thought nobody else couldn't see anything in their head either, and is now pissed at me for the poor sperm donation.

Wife and daughter claim no problems with seeing stuff in their minds eye.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0826101648.htm
Pablo Escobar is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 10 Users Say Thank You to Pablo Escobar For This Useful Post:
AndreaCA (09-22-2015), Feather (09-22-2015), flourbug (09-22-2015), linttrap (09-22-2015), Mama Alanna (09-22-2015), NowVoyager (09-22-2015), rb. (09-22-2015), sandyd (09-22-2015), Sysiphus (04-23-2017), Ter (06-20-2016)
Old 09-22-2015, 08:00 AM   #2
rb.
Climate Change is FAKE NEWS
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 14,444
Thanks: 2,726
Thanked 3,986 Times in 1,877 Posts
That's really interesting, and must suck.
rb. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2015, 01:16 PM   #3
Mama Alanna
Eat ALL the cookies!
 
Mama Alanna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: In front of the computer or the sewing machine.
Posts: 9,473
Thanks: 1,631
Thanked 5,346 Times in 2,100 Posts
Wonder if that's a sex-linked trait, because I suspect that DH has it too.

---------- Post added at 01:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:13 PM ----------

Do you dream, Pablo? DH insists that he doesn't.
__________________
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
We have enough gun control. What we need now is idiot control.
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
Mama Alanna is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2016, 08:17 AM   #4
Sonny
Star Witness
 
Sonny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: the safe house
Posts: 5,769
Blog Entries: 1
Thanks: 2,006
Thanked 766 Times in 497 Posts
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0826101648.htm
Snip>-
Niel works in a bookshop and is an avid reader, but avoids books with vivid landscape descriptions as they bring nothing to mind for him. "I just find myself going through the motion of reading the words without any image coming to mind," he said. "I usually have to go back and read a passage about a visual description several times -- it's almost meaningless."


It seems logical that it would be better to believe someone you trust, who can see, rather than trying to convince others something can not be because you can't see it or imagine it ?

`

Last edited by Sonny; 06-20-2016 at 08:36 AM.
Sonny is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2016, 09:30 AM   #5
Pablo Escobar
Senior Level 1
 
Pablo Escobar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,851
Thanks: 59
Thanked 276 Times in 145 Posts
Ha, it's true! Can't picture a damn thing! Dreams are weird, I occasionally wake up with a book length dream, but it feels more story line and feelings than 1st person shooter, if you will. Random normal dreams aren't visual, but happenings and feelings. Hard to explain.

I've often been accused of lacking empathy by, I don't know, like everyone, but it's not a criminal or narcissistic lack. My life for the last 15 years has been dedicated to helping severely disabled.

Being able to see facts, however, without emotional overlays, probably helps me to see the truth better than those whose emotions override logic, wouldn't you think?
Pablo Escobar is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Pablo Escobar For This Useful Post:
Feather (06-20-2016)
Old 04-20-2017, 06:54 AM   #6
Pablo Escobar
Senior Level 1
 
Pablo Escobar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,851
Thanks: 59
Thanked 276 Times in 145 Posts
When this article came out, it touched me as an explanation for my weirdness.

Seems like it freaked out a whole lot of people.

I recently was trying to explain to someone, once again, why I totally didn't know who they were when we passed in a grocery store, so I googled the term to see if there were any good links.

I was at work when I read this, literally tears rolling down my face, took me over 30 minutes to work through the article, because it was an 95% concurrence with MY life. I could have written it.

Anyway, written by a Facebook Executive, friend of Zuckerberg, with over 17000 Facebook comments and rising.

---------- Post added at 03:54 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:52 AM ----------

https://www.facebook.com/notes/blake...6834777480504/

How it feels to be blind in your minds eye, by Blake Ross.
Pablo Escobar is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Pablo Escobar For This Useful Post:
Feather (04-22-2017), Mama Alanna (04-20-2017), NowVoyager (04-20-2017)
Old 04-20-2017, 08:16 AM   #7
Ross
Lifetime Member
 
Ross's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Melbourne Australia
Posts: 14,980
Thanks: 5,762
Thanked 6,139 Times in 2,757 Posts
PE do you think there may be special situations in which it confers on
you an advantage over other humans .

For example , in war we may deceive ourselves by seeing that which we
expect to see and therefore suffer an adverse outcome ( perhaps an
ambush ) .


..
__________________
All paper is a short position on gold . “Gold is money. Everything else is credit.”

“If we don’t believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don’t believe in it at all.” ( Noam Chomsky )

‘you can judge a man’s spirit by the amount of truth he can tolerate.’ .... Nietzsche
Ross is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Ross For This Useful Post:
Pablo Escobar (04-22-2017)
Old 04-20-2017, 10:35 AM   #8
rryan
Deplorable
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 4,041
Thanks: 2,751
Thanked 1,501 Times in 683 Posts
That is interesting---I have the exact opposite as every time I close my eyes I see exactly what im thinking about and often can even recall the exact placement of multiple things, what a plate of food looked like, and even judge distance/measure stuff in my head.

Its very odd as my attention span is horrible but somehow the "big picture" and all the variables of a situation seem to instantly present themselves.

Cannot imagine having the condition you have
__________________
“Yield to temptation. It may not pass your way again.”
-RAH

It's still we the people, right?
rryan is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to rryan For This Useful Post:
Feather (04-22-2017), NowVoyager (04-20-2017), Pablo Escobar (04-22-2017)
Old 04-20-2017, 08:04 PM   #9
Mama Alanna
Eat ALL the cookies!
 
Mama Alanna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: In front of the computer or the sewing machine.
Posts: 9,473
Thanks: 1,631
Thanked 5,346 Times in 2,100 Posts
Fascinating! I can't imagine being "headblind" like that. So much of what I do as a craftsman is bound up with mental visual imagery. I see it first as a whole item, then figure out the steps to get me there.

I know what you mean about crying, Pablo. There was an article several years ago in Discover Magazine, on migraine research that had me in tears. They had a volunteer who could summon a migraine on demand through a certain level of exercise, and they finally managed to SEE what happened in his head as a migraine developed. For the first time they had PROOF that it's not just an ordinary headache exaggerated to get sympathy.
__________________
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
We have enough gun control. What we need now is idiot control.
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
Mama Alanna is online now   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Mama Alanna For This Useful Post:
Feather (04-22-2017), NowVoyager (04-20-2017), Pablo Escobar (04-22-2017)
Old 04-20-2017, 08:51 PM   #10
dharma
Git it, booger.
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 5,680
Thanks: 1,173
Thanked 2,817 Times in 1,079 Posts
One of my exes has prosopagnosia—the inability to recognize faces. People she knows are are constantly getting their fingers hurt when she doesn't recognize them. Interestingly, she can read expressions, but unless she knows you very well, she has problems when you walk up and say, "Hi, how are you?".

The brain has a collection of extremely sophisticated mechanisms that allow us to do hundreds of things we take for granted—until we can't do them any more.

Pablo, when you do math in your head, do you "see" anything? How do you work out equations?
dharma is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to dharma For This Useful Post:
Pablo Escobar (04-22-2017)
Old 04-21-2017, 12:35 AM   #11
cottage
Member Level 1
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 182
Thanks: 186
Thanked 126 Times in 61 Posts
This is very interesting. I feel I am on this continuum. It's long been kind of an embarrassment that I have a poor memory for faces, although I do remember some. What I "see" when trying to visualize something is more of an idea in my head. I feel the wheels turning hard and I'm working to think of the concept.

I had been regularly meditating for years, we have a verbal lead in to the meditation of "picture yourself on a beach...". I never saw it! I thought of it. Then one time a minister at the group was talking about the river Jordan. During that meditation, a startling and vivid image of a river, came right on to my visual screen. As if I was actually really looking at the scene live. I almost screamed! At that point, with all the excitement, my meditation was blown along with the picture. Has not yet happened again, but I hope for it.

Its funny, though, I've been dabbling in crafts and arts since childhood. Gotten good feedback from professional artist friends about my use of color. And I do have one "visualization" trick of sorts- when trying to recall information that I read in a book (this was particularly true when I was in school) I would walk back in my mind where I read the particular passages. For instance, the top paragraph on the left side of the book. This would bring the information to me. I didn't see the information, I just remembered where it was located in the book and then remembered it.

I've always been really bad at arithmetics and I suspect people who are good at it have a strong visual to go with it.
cottage is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to cottage For This Useful Post:
Feather (04-22-2017), NowVoyager (04-21-2017), Pablo Escobar (04-22-2017), Wojapi (04-21-2017)
Old 04-21-2017, 02:17 AM   #12
Oric
El Turco
 
Oric's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Istanbul, Turkey
Posts: 8,351
Thanks: 879
Thanked 2,263 Times in 994 Posts
There are those who can't visualize, those who can and still those who SUPER can. I remember in high school when some of the more genius guys who could rotate 3d complex objects in space and tell which side will fit another complex one IN THEIR HEADS, while all we could visualise were the blonde gals around
Oric is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Oric For This Useful Post:
Feather (04-22-2017), NowVoyager (04-21-2017), Pablo Escobar (04-22-2017)
Old 04-21-2017, 08:14 AM   #13
Mama Alanna
Eat ALL the cookies!
 
Mama Alanna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: In front of the computer or the sewing machine.
Posts: 9,473
Thanks: 1,631
Thanked 5,346 Times in 2,100 Posts
And that's yet a different subset, Oric. Spatial visualization. DH can do the beach picture, but he can't look at a thing and rotate it in his mind to realize that it was cut backwards.
__________________
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
We have enough gun control. What we need now is idiot control.
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
Mama Alanna is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2017, 09:13 AM   #14
flourbug
Don't wrestle with a pig. The pig enjoys it and you get muddy.
 
flourbug's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: LOL, Florida!
Posts: 25,612
Thanks: 6,482
Thanked 10,823 Times in 4,720 Posts
Jason is designing and making tiny 3D parts on his printer that fit together perfectly. They're like watch parts, all moving together. He thinks up what he wants then designs it in a 3D modeling program and prints it out. He's currently building a drone from scratch that has several custom features that are not available commercially. It is a jumble of hardware and software held together with wires, carbon fiber parts, metal parts, plastic parts. He's surrounded by computers with beeping graphs to test it all out. Fiddle, tweak, make, code, assemble, test... Yet he is completely unable to walk into a house and see the potential for renovations. His vision is limited to "like it" and "don't like it". His memory is so good I have wondered if he has a photographic memory. He remembers things verbatim. He remembers minutia. When we watch a movie for the second time I barely remember what happens next, and he remembers what items are on a table in a scene that lasts 4 seconds. He grasps abstract ideas immediately and so completely he is able to build on them on the fly. He is such a quick study of people and gives such amazing relationship advice I have often thought he really should have been a marriage counselor. In our own relationship he is more thoughtful, affectionate, and considerate than I am, while I give him A for Effort the truth is he's an introvert's introvert who is happier locked in his office with room service delivering meals. He'll text a novel's worth of comments, but don't ask him to Skype or Facetime. He remembers the faces or people he knows, but in general he can't tell one black man from another. Same with asian people. They all look alike to him. He does better with white people, but two women with blond hair are assumed to be the same woman, and two men with brown hair are the same man. He has the WORST navigational skills of anyone I have ever met. Can't tell north from south or east from west, can't remember landmarks, often drives right past our destination. (Remember me telling you about the time he went to a nearby store for diapers and called four hours later, miles from home, not a clue where he was or how to get back? I'm lucky he didn't just go home with some tall white woman.) He loses EVERYTHING. He gets in the car then has to get out and get his wallet, his phone, his keycard. He is so terrified of heights he refuses to get into an airplane. Yet he can spend hours flying his octocopters, first person view with goggles that make it seem like he is inside the drone.

I've known him more than 20 years and I can't figure him out - except that he is a living collection of contradictions.
flourbug is online now   Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to flourbug For This Useful Post:
Feather (04-22-2017), linttrap (04-21-2017), NowVoyager (04-21-2017), Pablo Escobar (04-22-2017)
Old 04-21-2017, 09:30 AM   #15
blue gecko
Simplify, Do or Die
 
blue gecko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 10,587
Thanks: 2,497
Thanked 4,301 Times in 1,772 Posts
I never imagined you TALL fb! I figured you were a short gal like the rest of us
__________________
Life is short. Break the rules. Forgive quickly.
Kiss slowly. Love truly. Laugh uncontrollably,
and never regret anything that made you smile.


Women are Angels and when someone breaks our wings we simply continue to fly...on a broomstick. We are flexible like that
blue gecko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2017, 10:14 AM   #16
flourbug
Don't wrestle with a pig. The pig enjoys it and you get muddy.
 
flourbug's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: LOL, Florida!
Posts: 25,612
Thanks: 6,482
Thanked 10,823 Times in 4,720 Posts
You're short?! I'm just shy of 5'10", bg.
flourbug is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2017, 10:21 AM   #17
A.T. Hagan
Your "Crazy Town" reporter
 
A.T. Hagan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: North/Central Florida
Posts: 12,880
Thanks: 2,903
Thanked 7,179 Times in 3,046 Posts
I seldom forget a face that I've seen much before, but also can seldom remember the name that goes with it.

I'm so-so on visualizing things in my mind. I can do OK at building something I've visualized, but the "fold the box" exercises that some aptitude tests use often stump me.

I can do basic arithmetic in my head pretty well, but algebra et al is a foreign language to me. I have many times tried to lead my kids to understand how to do simple percents, multiplications, divisions, and so on in their heads to at least get a ball park answer, but they are now both beyond me in mathematics at school.

Reading upside down and backwards is not a problem.
__________________
Chance favors the prepared mind.
A.T. Hagan is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to A.T. Hagan For This Useful Post:
Feather (04-22-2017), Wojapi (04-21-2017)
Old 04-21-2017, 06:53 PM   #18
blue gecko
Simplify, Do or Die
 
blue gecko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 10,587
Thanks: 2,497
Thanked 4,301 Times in 1,772 Posts
5'4"
__________________
Life is short. Break the rules. Forgive quickly.
Kiss slowly. Love truly. Laugh uncontrollably,
and never regret anything that made you smile.


Women are Angels and when someone breaks our wings we simply continue to fly...on a broomstick. We are flexible like that
blue gecko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2017, 07:17 PM   #19
flourbug
Don't wrestle with a pig. The pig enjoys it and you get muddy.
 
flourbug's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: LOL, Florida!
Posts: 25,612
Thanks: 6,482
Thanked 10,823 Times in 4,720 Posts
Shrimp.
flourbug is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2017, 12:04 AM   #20
Pablo Escobar
Senior Level 1
 
Pablo Escobar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,851
Thanks: 59
Thanked 276 Times in 145 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ross View Post
PE do you think there may be special situations in which it confers on
you an advantage over other humans .

For example , in war we may deceive ourselves by seeing that which we
expect to see and therefore suffer an adverse outcome ( perhaps an
ambush ) .


..
I am almost never distracted by details, so can understand complex topics regardless of any background, if that makes sense...

I could easily hop into a ship, and explore a new continent, or a new world, without ever feeling any homesickness...

I see a lot of overlap between sociopathy and aphantasia, so I could become a diabolical strongman.
Pablo Escobar is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Pablo Escobar For This Useful Post:
Ross (04-24-2017)
Old 04-22-2017, 12:13 AM   #21
Pablo Escobar
Senior Level 1
 
Pablo Escobar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,851
Thanks: 59
Thanked 276 Times in 145 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mama Alanna View Post
Fascinating! I can't imagine being "headblind" like that. So much of what I do as a craftsman is bound up with mental visual imagery. I see it first as a whole item, then figure out the steps to get me there.

I know what you mean about crying, Pablo. There was an article several years ago in Discover Magazine, on migraine research that had me in tears. They had a volunteer who could summon a migraine on demand through a certain level of exercise, and they finally managed to SEE what happened in his head as a migraine developed. For the first time they had PROOF that it's not just an ordinary headache exaggerated to get sympathy.

The Spanish saying, "Que Lastima", what a pity, has more of the flavor of the feeling, and doesn't translate to English well.

I don't miss not knowing being able to describe to a police artist what my parents, my wife, my children look like....

But intellectually, I know that I shouldn't feel shame or embarrassment.

To read about similar coping mechanisms that I've organically made, just clarified that I am not lazy, or inattentive, or cold , self centered selfish by choice, LOL.
Pablo Escobar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2017, 12:25 AM   #22
Pablo Escobar
Senior Level 1
 
Pablo Escobar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,851
Thanks: 59
Thanked 276 Times in 145 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by dharma View Post
One of my exes has prosopagnosia—the inability to recognize faces. People she knows are are constantly getting their fingers hurt when she doesn't recognize them. Interestingly, she can read expressions, but unless she knows you very well, she has problems when you walk up and say, "Hi, how are you?".

The brain has a collection of extremely sophisticated mechanisms that allow us to do hundreds of things we take for granted—until we can't do them any more.

Pablo, when you do math in your head, do you "see" anything? How do you work out equations?

Math tables to 25 are memorized as rote/response. Most common math and answer is just known. Large numbers maths become a short term memorization drill, but not like in columns on paper, if that makes sense.

The article mentions frequently "using my milk voice". It's my running commentary, sometimes two or three topics at once, that is used when I do math.

I always have a running dialogue going.

---------- Post added at 09:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:20 PM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by cottage View Post
This is very interesting. I feel I am on this continuum. It's long been kind of an embarrassment that I have a poor memory for faces, although I do remember some. What I "see" when trying to visualize something is more of an idea in my head. I feel the wheels turning hard and I'm working to think of the concept.

I had been regularly meditating for years, we have a verbal lead in to the meditation of "picture yourself on a beach...". I never saw it! I thought of it. Then one time a minister at the group was talking about the river Jordan. During that meditation, a startling and vivid image of a river, came right on to my visual screen. As if I was actually really looking at the scene live. I almost screamed! At that point, with all the excitement, my meditation was blown along with the picture. Has not yet happened again, but I hope for it.

Its funny, though, I've been dabbling in crafts and arts since childhood. Gotten good feedback from professional artist friends about my use of color. And I do have one "visualization" trick of sorts- when trying to recall information that I read in a book (this was particularly true when I was in school) I would walk back in my mind where I read the particular passages. For instance, the top paragraph on the left side of the book. This would bring the information to me. I didn't see the information, I just remembered where it was located in the book and then remembered it.

I've always been really bad at arithmetics and I suspect people who are good at it have a strong visual to go with it.

Very interesting, for when I was young, I believed I had a "photographic " memory, for I could recall everything I read, and saw in relation to where it was in the book, and even where it was on the page...

That's what I thought photographic memory meant....

I couldn't see it, I just knew the data implicitly.
Pablo Escobar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2017, 01:52 AM   #23
Oric
El Turco
 
Oric's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Istanbul, Turkey
Posts: 8,351
Thanks: 879
Thanked 2,263 Times in 994 Posts
Funny, I can multiply two 3 digit numbers in my head without thinking to much into it, read/speak 5 languages but can't remember the name of my colleagues.
Oric is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2017, 08:16 AM   #24
Mama Alanna
Eat ALL the cookies!
 
Mama Alanna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: In front of the computer or the sewing machine.
Posts: 9,473
Thanks: 1,631
Thanked 5,346 Times in 2,100 Posts
Introduce me to a stranger and MAYBE I will remember their name 5 minutes later, but it will be gone the next day. Talk to me for months about your buddy Fred, then introduce me, and the melding of face and name is permanent.

That running commentary in the head? Always, and not just my voice. My book characters speak in very distinctive voices, but most of them were thoughtful enough to go away once their stories were safely written down. Bantam, however, seems to be a permanent resident. My father occasionally comments screams when I spend money I don't need to.
__________________
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
We have enough gun control. What we need now is idiot control.
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
Mama Alanna is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
aphantasia, eye, mind, talking

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:51 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright © Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.