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Old 04-30-2009, 03:58 AM   #26
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http://www.med-owl.com/health/H5N1-Virus-Therapy.html

Will elderberry & Sambutol just kill us quicker?

OH
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Old 04-30-2009, 07:03 AM   #27
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My apology for the previous post. A couple of hours sleep and it is more clear now. As usual everybody is right.

This seems obvious. Elderberry, echanacia and the like are great for enhancing the immune system and for ordinary colds and flus could be used in the season and during the illness.

It is only the diseases which kill by cytokine storm that are different. One doesn't want to face flu or anything else with a weakened immune system. Elderberry would still be an excellent tool to fine tune the immune system.

But if the impending disease is killing by cytokine storm, once symptoms appear one might want to replace elderberry with curcumin (with piperine).

If the flu is producing massive fatality rates we can assume cytokine storm is the culprit. The effect of the curcumin in counteracting the storm would be immediate, just like an antihistimine for an allergic reaction.

As always everyone should read all the info and make thier own choices. The above will be my own for the time being.

I will welcome informed advice as to the dosage of the curcumin.

Please forgive my putting the same post in different threads but it seems appropriate.

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Old 04-30-2009, 07:18 AM   #28
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OH iirc from the early flubie days I think the discussion centered around using herbal etc. antivirals early to reduce the viral load on your system to try to forestall cytokine storm and if that failed then go the anti-inflammatory route. It would thusly make sense to use herbal products that are anti-viral mainly by direct action against the virus as versus immune stimulating.

My example for that would be garlic. My Dad was hospitalized several years ago in his cancer struggle with a white count of .01 with a cold virus that nearly killed him. He had no immune system and the docs walked off shaking their heads in amazement when he recovered. Any time I could get him to, I had him taking garlic
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Old 04-30-2009, 07:50 AM   #29
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Susan that is the direction of my thoughts too. The trick would be to know when to change to the anti inflammatory.
Your thoughts?

Yes on the garlic. Pocket full of posies......

OH
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Old 04-30-2009, 08:25 AM   #30
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Something that may be useful....

Quote:
Elderberry juice (Sambucal) - AVOID - Increases production of cytokines TNF-a and IL-6. This substance is very effective against the common flu but may not be desirable for the H5N1 virus. Increases in these cytokines may trigger a lethal cytokine storm. (Isr Med Journal2002 Nov;4:944-6)
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Old 04-30-2009, 08:36 AM   #31
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Good Article OH and I agree with your assessment.
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Old 04-30-2009, 08:53 AM   #32
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The TNF-a and IL-6 are just two of many cytokines and may be a result of the echinacea in the Sambucol (TM) formulation. I'm not willing to rule out straight elderberry tincture in this fight yet at all.

Think about it herbally people, dark juice and dark skinned berries are _____ ? Anti-ox and anti-inflammatory.

Echinacea root is _____ ? A big old immune booster, thymus squeezer
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Old 05-02-2009, 11:45 AM   #33
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It is all academic right now. My order from herbalcom.com came in.........sans elderberry. They had emailed me that the order was shipped so I was happy till now. Don't even know if I have a back order in place.

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Old 05-05-2009, 11:57 AM   #34
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My order from herbalcom was also with the elderberries backordered. No indication as to when they might be back in stock.
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Old 05-06-2009, 05:43 PM   #35
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herbalcom's web ordering site shows elderberries will be avilable MAY 7 so check then, although I udnerstand thay have 250 backorders outstanding!
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Old 05-16-2009, 01:19 AM   #36
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Just to catch up on an unanswered question, Sambucol Original Formula (originally and as sold now) does not contain any other herbs.

And, it is very tasty....

OH
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Last edited by Old Hawk; 05-16-2009 at 01:27 AM.
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Old 05-16-2009, 03:37 PM   #37
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Arrow

I would never risk it myself, but it would be interesting to know if tumeric can suppress a 'cytokine storm' to the point where one could safely take elderberry and eccinacea for their antiviral properties when flu symptoms appear.
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Old 05-17-2009, 09:41 PM   #38
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Beg to differ, OH. the bottle I have in my hand,the original made in Israel, contains raspberry extract in addition to the patented Sambucol elderberry extract and that extract, I'm pretty sure had another herb with it, but when she sold her company to the French company she kept the patent and their extract is different than the original that was made in Israel.
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Old 05-17-2009, 11:33 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goatlady View Post
Beg to differ, OH. the bottle I have in my hand,the original made in Israel, contains raspberry extract in addition to the patented Sambucol elderberry extract and that extract, I'm pretty sure had another herb with it, but when she sold her company to the French company she kept the patent and their extract is different than the original that was made in Israel.
You are right GL, I miswrote. Sambucol Original Formula from Healthcare Brands doesn't contain any other herbs. Some of their other formulas have raspberry artificial flavors.

Tried to research and it is very confusing. There are and apparently were various combinations of ingredients. There are presently products called Sambucol coming from different manufacturers, Natures Way for one. The name seems to be owned by Healthcare Brands.

The Sambucol Original Formula from Healthcare Brands says it has 3.8g Elderberry Extract per 2 teaspoons (10ml). How does this compare with your old bottle?

Anyway, for the moment we are in good shape and making tincture and have this product on hand also.

Thank you for all your good elderberry information.

OH
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Old 05-19-2009, 07:22 AM   #40
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The way I understand the history of it, OH, is the lady doctor in Israel who "invented" the formula patented thensame Sambucol, set up her company in Israel for manufacturt it, and Natures Way was the exclusive distributor in the U.S. After several years she sold her company in Israel to a French company along with the patented nam and the existing distribution contracts, but she kept the original formula she used in HER manufacturing. I have no idea if the difference in the formulas now days is in the extraction methods or ingredients, but what is available today, from what I understand, is NOT the exact same as her original was and, therefore, NOT the same formulas that was used in all those nice documented tests. Natures Way contract expired and now several U.S. companies are making and/or distrubuting the preparation.
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Old 10-23-2009, 01:29 PM   #41
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Old 10-23-2009, 04:04 PM   #42
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Default elder

I have been making elderberry tincture for a couple of years. I take it at the first sign of cold or flu. It has been my experience that it stops cold any lung involvement. I had what I believe was the swine flu about two months ago, and there was almost no cough at all. Two years ago I cared for my son and family when they had whatever strain that year, and had light symptoms, but no lung involvement at all. I am 62, and was very sick in 1968 with what I believe was avian influenza. I also feel that the present strain is avian influenza, because I'm finding that, worldwide, those most likely to die are young adults!
Or, perhaps it really is a "human, swine, and avian mix".
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Old 10-23-2009, 04:06 PM   #43
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Default pregnancy and elderberry

Does anyone know whether it is safe to give elderberry tincture to a pregnant woman?
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Old 10-23-2009, 04:10 PM   #44
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Default cyto storm

I do have fibromyalgia, and I have not seen any increased problem with the elderberry extract. As my M.D, puts it, people with FMS fight infection with 20 guns instead of 5 ( a cytokine storm, of sorts).
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Old 10-23-2009, 06:28 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by momcare View Post
Does anyone know whether it is safe to give elderberry tincture to a pregnant woman?
momcare, in all the research I've done on STRAIGHT elderberry extract, there has been no indication it is not safe for pregnant women. Sambucol syrup used to contain raspberry, don't know if it still does. Raspberry is NOT recommended for pregnant women...I believe it can cause cramping, IIRC. I'd stay clear of any herbal/natural "mixtures" for pregnant women in general, and just go with the specific ones you want.

Just like you shouldn't take OTC meds that are mixtures, like sleep/decongestant/tylenol cold med, and then you end up taking more tylenol because you forget or don't know it's in it.
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Old 10-23-2009, 06:29 PM   #46
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Forgot to add, my great grandmother used elderberry "wine" in Wales in the early part of the last century to treat the family's illnesses. No word was ever spoken about not giving it to pregnant women.
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Old 10-25-2009, 01:25 PM   #47
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Not that it hasn't been discussed here before, But can one buy elderberry extract otc at the local box stores, and if so which brand at which store is it available? TIA!
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Old 10-25-2009, 02:07 PM   #48
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Old 10-25-2009, 02:08 PM   #49
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Sonny, the only place I've been able to find it is in Canada is in one independent health food store (extract), and one corporate grocery store's organic/herbal section (Sambucol syrup). The grocery store no longer carries it. For Canadians, it was a Your Independent Grocer (Weston/Loblaws store, like Zehrs, Great Canadian Superstore, No Frills, etc.). I have not been able to find it in any of the pharmacies (or department store pharmacies ie. Walmart, Zellers), despite the fact that they all have herbal sections now.
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Old 10-28-2009, 10:16 AM   #50
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Rite Aid in my area carries it.
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