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Old 05-18-2017, 11:58 AM   #1
A.T. Hagan
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Default Beijing claims landmark success in mining flammable ice 4,000ft under South China Sea

Quote:
China discovered ice in the South China Sea in 2007
On March 28, a trial began where 16,000 cubic metres of gas was extracted daily
Minister of Land and Resources said it was a breakthrough in energy use
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...mable-ice.html


Successful attempt: The Minister for Land and Resourced claimed it
was a major breakthrough
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Old 05-18-2017, 12:24 PM   #2
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solid methane.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...mable-ice.html
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Old 05-18-2017, 01:48 PM   #3
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Interesting. We have a lot of very creative and inventive humans on this rock.
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Old 05-18-2017, 03:32 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andy
solid methane.
No. Melting point of methane is -300 degrees F. It's a methane clathrate in water ice.

One of the global warming disaster scenarios is this stuff melting and releasing all the methane, which you will recall is a potent greenhouse gas.
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Old 05-18-2017, 07:33 PM   #5
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Dharma said .....
Quote:
No. Melting point of methane is -300 degrees F. It's a methane
clathrate in water ice.

One of the global warming disaster scenarios is this stuff melting and
releasing all the methane, which you will recall is a potent greenhouse gas.
Another alarmist myth possibly being put to bed by recent research .....

Quote:
Research off the coast of Norway’s Svalbard archipelago suggests that
where methane gas bubbles up from seafloor seeps, surface waters directly
above absorb twice as much carbon dioxide (CO2) as surrounding waters.
The findings suggest that methane seeps in isolated spots in the Arctic
could lessen the impact of climate change.
Quote:
In fact, the study finds that in such zones, nearly 1900 times more CO2 is being
absorbed than methane emitted. That’s a small but real consolation for those
concerned about global warming, Pohlman says: In these limited zones,
the atmospheric benefit from CO2 sequestration is about 230 times greater than
the warming effect from methane emissions.
Full article found here.

As usual the article uses weasel words to avoid triggering alarmists and I suspect
this phenomenon will soon be found to exist outside arctic cold zones.

..
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Last edited by Ross; 05-18-2017 at 07:42 PM.
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Old 05-18-2017, 08:06 PM   #6
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Fascinating.
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Old 05-18-2017, 11:27 PM   #7
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Hmm... an innovative extraction technique for a valuable energy resource found in a disputed territory.

And now China has its artificial "Carrier" island fortresses there to provide quasi-legitimacy to their claim to the region. Many land grabs in history have been based on much more tenuous claims...
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Old 05-19-2017, 12:48 AM   #8
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Methane is a much worse greenhouse gas (30x) than carbon dioxide. So, if this is true (which I question), it would potentially mitigate the risk posed by catastrophic release of methane clathrates.
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Old 05-19-2017, 02:34 AM   #9
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Sysiphus said ...
Quote:
Methane is a much worse greenhouse gas (30x) than carbon dioxide.
So, if this is true (which I question), it would potentially mitigate the
risk posed by catastrophic release of methane clathrates.
I think you should bear in mind that the average global ocean depth
is 4 km and that most methane is broken down before it reaches the
surface . The residency time of methane in the atmosphere is also
quite short with most of it converted to other forms within 8 to 9 years .
Quote:
Rough estimates suggest that anaerobic and aerobic oxidation of methane
together currently convert around 90 per cent of the methane produced in
the sea floor before it can reach the atmosphere. The more slowly methane
migrates through the sea floor or through the water column, the more
effective the microbes are in converting it.
Quote source .
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Old 05-19-2017, 02:38 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sysiphus View Post
Methane is a much worse greenhouse gas (30x) than carbon dioxide. So, if this is true (which I question), it would potentially mitigate the risk posed by catastrophic release of methane clathrates.
Given the short lifetime of methane gas in the atmosphere I still can't figure out the claim that it is 30x worse than CO2 as a greenhouse gas. Come to that, for many years now, I still haven't figured out how CO2 gas 'traps heat' in the atmosphere and warms the whole world, even by say 1/1000th of a Kelvin.

I am well aware of the radiative capability, and capacity, of CO2 gas molecules in the atmosphere such that any target of such radiation must be colder than -30C before it might absorb any of that radiation and gain some energy.

Maybe that's why some people are so excited about Antarctica. /sarc
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Old 05-19-2017, 08:04 AM   #11
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We shall see. Methane clathrates have been the "next big thing" in energy for decades. It's always almost here.
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Old 05-19-2017, 09:45 AM   #12
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Normal ice floats because it's less dense than water. Are these clathrates that are on the sea floor more dense than water?

I imagine that they'd use the warmer surface water to melt the ice but I doubt it will be technically possible nor cost effective to recover 100% of the methane. some percentage of the CH4 will remain dissolved in the water and be released into the ocean.

Not that that will be a problem for the Chinese.

`

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Old 05-19-2017, 10:13 AM   #13
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It floats .

..
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