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Old 08-12-2017, 04:34 PM   #1
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Default university of virgina ?

Lots of news covered from the campus.

---------- Post added at 11:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:32 PM ----------

https://twitter.com/brennanmgilmore/...34516260212737
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Old 08-12-2017, 05:23 PM   #2
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Just some free speech going on.
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Old 08-12-2017, 11:33 PM   #3
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OK we can refer to all vehicle assaults on crowds as "free speech" from now on.

Will we ?
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Old 08-13-2017, 01:04 AM   #4
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Now

This


done by those


The world cheers for your ISIS* ! This time domestic, not sponsored.


* Similar in bigotry
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Old 08-13-2017, 09:31 AM   #5
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The world cheers for your ISIS* ! This time domestic, not sponsored.
Not quite, Oric.

Antifa has been staging Nazi rallies throughout the country. Antifa then arrives in their black garb to drive away the White Nationalists and win the day.

They are really the same:



Remember, REAL Nazis had no problem killing other white people, including Jews, Poles, French, and British. They wanted racial purity. Antifa is the same - only their version of racial purity includes all those the Nazis targeted PLUS the Nazis themselves.

Antifa has a real PR campaign going, using pictures like this:



To rile their followers to believe Nazis are attacking Antifa members:



Social media has been picking up more and more on Antifa's fake Nazis.



The driver of the car that drove into the crowd was videotaped earlier this year at an Antifa rally, dressed in Antifa garb, participating in the riots.

That is in contrast to a newly created Facebook page (since removed but still archived) that showed him wearing a Trump hat and Nazi clothing.

There are other signs a rally has been staged - for example, everyone carrying the same commercially manufactured, brand new, signs and flags.

When the news reported people were hit by a car he was driving, the news promoted the idea he was a Nazi attacking peaceful protesters. When the video was pointed out on social media, he is now a "very scared man" who was being attacked when he panicked and tried to get away.
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Old 08-13-2017, 11:15 AM   #6
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Let's consider for a moment that you are %100 correctly informed

This is a worse scenario, United States harbours a terrorist organisation that aims to create a race/class war using psyc-op tactics and keen on taking lives to reach their goals.

So your problem was not Mexican immigrants or Islamists at all, there is an up & running network much more powerful than Al-Qaeda and your FBI slept all the time ...

Of course this scenario fails to deliver because there are big logical flaws.

For example, those Nazi Flag carriers, I remember all the time hearing "Why don't the Muslims protest and stop radical Islamists who wow death to America and the West ?", can we have the answer for this case ? I mean even Captain America and Wonder Woman beat the Nazis (your anti-nazi culture is alive), isn't there a single soul to object to this guy ?

or there are hundreds of controls to contain and track Al-Qaeda and ISIS but AFTER a deadly attack we learn that this group exists and has a large network, moving freely.

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Old 08-13-2017, 11:33 AM   #7
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This deserves a longer answer than I can type on my phone. Will write this evening.
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Old 08-13-2017, 11:37 AM   #8
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Thanx - looking forward to a detailed answer.
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Old 08-13-2017, 01:09 PM   #9
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Except that those photos are not of the driver arrested and accused. Your entire post is out to lunch, fb. Here's a significantly more detailed account thrown together on a police page (historically VERY anti-BLM and anti-ANTIFA) who have done some good open source records work on this one.

https://bluelivesmatter.blue/james-f...arlottesville/

It appears that yet again we have a radicalized loser who sucks at life, and who for twisted political ideals decides to mow down a bunch of people in a car. This time it just awkwardly happens to be the fact that he's not Muslim, but rather is an alt-Reich white nationalist. Naturally the entire right wing is shitting bricks right now, and contorting itself trying to explain this away as anything other than what it appears to be- a radical right wing act of terrorism.

This man is no better than anyone else who hops in a car and rams a crowd. Newsflash: whether you like it or not, that violent stream of radicalism exists across the entirety of the political spectrum, and the re-emergence of an emboldened neo-Nazi movement in the last eight months is catalyzing further violence. No amount of 'but BLM/Antifa' can change the fact that these assholes are part of the spectrum too. Yesterday was simply the inevitable result of America's current social trajectory. We are going to see more of this, probably from both sides. But you don't get to pretend that the neo-Nazi marching with Vanguard America and then plowing his car into an Antifa crowd is something other than what he is.

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Old 08-13-2017, 02:20 PM   #10
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This is happening in my part of the world. Charlottesville is where all my specialist doctors are.

It all started over a statue of Robert E. Lee. Some view it as shameful and want it removed. Others feel just as strongly that it is part of our historical past and want it to remain. People on both sides have poured into the city.

A State Police copter has crashed in the city, killing two troopers. The governor has declared C'ville a disaster area and called in the state troopers.

Trump has created this horrible Us against Them attitude in our country. I hope he is happy with the death and unjury count now.

I pray with everything I have in me that the death and injuries have stopped for good here.
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Old 08-13-2017, 06:18 PM   #11
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First of all, this had NOTHING to do with Donald Trump, except the people who are against Trump are ALSO against the Southern Democrats who are protesting the removal of Confederate statues.

This was not a rally for Trump, nor was it a rally by conservatives. As spinner said, a group of people wanted to preserve Confederate history by keeping the statue, and another group came out to counter-protest.

Here is a quote from Wikipedia in case you do not know what Southern Democrats are:

Quote:
Southern Democrats are members of the U.S. Democratic Party who reside in the American South.

In the 19th century, Southern Democrats comprised whites in the South who believed in Jeffersonian democracy. In the 1850s they defended slavery in the United States, and promoted its expansion into the West against northern Free Soil opposition. The United States presidential election of 1860 formalized the split, and brought war. After Reconstruction ended in the late 1870s they controlled all the Southern states and disenfranchised blacks (who were Republicans). The “Solid South” gave nearly all its electoral votes to Democrats in presidential elections. Republicans seldom were elected to office outside some Appalachian mountain districts and a few heavily German-American counties of Texas.[a]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Democrats

From the link above, take note of the list of Notable Southern Democrats. You will find many names you recognize as part of the mainstream National Democrat Party. The Confederacy has NEVER been a Republican ideology.

Trump rallies were being infiltrated *prior to his election*. People disguised as Trump supporters would position themselves in the crowd at rallies and would step forward in front of media cameras and perform the Nazi salute, pull swastika flags out of their pockets and wave them around, and open their jackets to show Nazi themed t-shirts. Many times the MSM would show the "Nazis" as Trump supporters, and not show how the crowds of real Trump supporters turned against them and kicked them out, unless it was to claim "violence" by the Trump crowd. They did the same in online forums by heavily brigading posts with shills. The purpose was to give the media evidence to promote the idea that Trump and his supporters are racist, sexist, etc, when nothing could be further from the truth.

Just one example: https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/...trump/dlkkzh0/

These same tactics are now being used against Southern Democrats protesting removal of Confederate statues. I do not believe all Southern Democrats are Nazis. Apples and oranges. I believe some Southern Democrats see the Confederacy as their heritage while more mainstream Democrats see the Confederacy as racism. Republicans do not have a dog in this fight. They have always seen the Confederacy as racism. The comment I see most often from Republicans is, Democrats are trying to re-write history by removing statues connecting their party with the Confederacy.

After the election, Antifa became more visible. The pictures I posted above are (of course) not the driver (never claimed they were) but a few of the numerous pictures online showing Antifa infiltrating protests and pretending to be Nazis. They send people to one side to act as Nazis, then point to those Nazis in order to rile up their own troops to violence against the people on the other side.

We know these groups are well funded, because they arrive by the busload, and they carry the same commercially manufactured signs, flags, t-shirts, torches, etc.
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Old 08-13-2017, 10:19 PM   #12
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Trump is getting public support coupled with cautions and reminders of who elected him from the likes of David Duke. The fascists and neo-Nazis, the whole Alt-Reich, Make America White Again crown have thrown their support solidly behind him and have been emboldened by the cultural shift in America as racist populism has risen in the past eight months. Nobody gets to pretend this has nothing to do with Trump and his supporters and not get called on their shit. Whatever you may like about Trump and some of his policies, his rise has also become a lightning rod for new fascists who have previously spent years hiding under rocks. America has a new and ugly feel to it. Trump and his rise have much to do with it.
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Old 08-14-2017, 05:40 AM   #13
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Brihard said ...
Quote:
Trump is getting public support coupled with cautions and reminders of who elected him from the likes of David Duke.
The fascists and neo-Nazis, the whole Alt-Reich, Make America White Again crown have thrown their support solidly
behind him and have been emboldened by the cultural shift in America as racist populism has risen in the past eight months.
Nobody gets to pretend this has nothing to do with Trump and his supporters and not get called on their shit.
The very same people declaring lone acts of Islamic violence are not representative
of Islam and Islamic teaching now cannot keep their pants dry for want of pissing on Trump and
his supporters when a lone wolf thug loses his temper . Hypocrisy much .

IMO Americans voted against Clinton ( with good reason ) and for conservative policies
rather than for Donald Trump as a person .



..
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Old 08-14-2017, 09:28 AM   #14
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Trump is getting public support coupled with cautions and reminders of who elected him from the likes of David Duke. The fascists and neo-Nazis, the whole Alt-Reich, Make America White Again crown have thrown their support solidly behind him
Oh good lord. Someone is watching too much CNN from his lofty perch in the perfect socialist world up north.

Black Panthers, BLM, La Raza, Mecha, and other black and brown power groups operate openly in the US. They hold huge rallies with tens of thousands of people, place armed men outside voting booths, riot and burn down cities... and they overwhelmingly vote Democrat. But somehow they aren't racist and they do not represent the Democrat party, even though Democrat politicians regularly appoint members to positions of power and obtain millions of dollars in funding for them.

Last April there was a White Power rally in Stone Mountain, Georgia that was hyped as the Big Meeting for ALL Southern White Power groups. Hundreds of people attended. It was all over the news. Just Google it. What you might not find buried in all those stories is the fact that there were just 12 White Supremacists. TWELVE. That tiny little gathering not only attracted a big crowd in protest, it garnered hundreds of sensationalist news stories. NAZIS, OH MY GOD! DAVID DUKE SAID SOMETHING! TRUMP RACISSSSSS! TRUMP WANTS TO KILL ALL BLACK PEOPLE!

The vast majority of white supremacists belong to skinhead and norse gangs in PRISON. Incarcerated whites stand against extremely violent and racist hispanic, black, and muslim gangs. Of course some are going to group together in "white power". But step outside prison, and you have more chance of winning the PowerBall than spotting any sort of Nazi or member of the KKK in the wild in the US.

Guess what? Most Americans see every black power, brown power, yellow power, nationalist and ethnic group on earth supported EXCEPT "white power" - all while whites are not just becoming a minority but prejudice against white skin, culture, and traditions, are growing both on the streets and institutionally. If White Power groups are growing, c'est la vie. We see them ALL as racist groups. They're all equally shit. The only time it is acceptable for an American to be holding a flag with a swastika or antifa symbol or blm logo or isis scrawl - any type of racist symbol - is if it has been captured and put on display as a sign of victory.

I do have to chuckle at your head in the sand attitude, Bri. Canadians like to delude themselves they are more civilized, less racist, more caring - but while the US stopped persecuting natives and enslaving blacks over 150 years ago, your underclass has been kept hidden away and out of sight while undergoing cultural genocide. Canada was stealing native children from their parents as recently as 20 years ago. Now that aboriginals are leaving their hovels and moving to the cities, the racism is a bit more evident, isn't it? One of your major cities "is quickly becoming known for the subhuman treatment of its First Nations citizens, who suffer daily indignities and appalling violence."

http://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/w...-at-its-worst/

I give white Canadians five years before they have the same reaction to the influx of blacks, hispanic, and muslim economic migrants crossing your borders.
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Old 08-14-2017, 11:50 AM   #15
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I give white Canadians five years before they have the same reaction to the influx of blacks, hispanic, and muslim economic migrants crossing your borders.
No it is not the same. American culture is unique with its "every man for himself", "own guns and be proud to use them" (=more personal violence in problem solving) attributes, Canada does not naturally possess the fissile materials + is a welfare state that will always ease the social tensions IMHO.
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Old 08-14-2017, 12:15 PM   #16
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Oric, the article was about how Canadians treat their own native populations.

Canadian racism is not ancient history. Up until 1996, children were removed from their First Nation parents and placed in government residential homes, in order to re-educate them away from their native heritage, language, and religions. Tens of thousands of children died in those homes, and many of the social problems that exist today are blamed on that situation.

The article says Canada has a problem with racism and one of their major cities, Winnipeg, "is quickly becoming known for the subhuman treatment of its First Nations citizens, who suffer daily indignities and appalling violence." That is today. It is NOW. It is how the people of Winnipeg treat their neighbors.

The reason is stated in the opening paragraph, "“Oh Goddd how long are aboriginal people going to use what happened as a crutch to suck more money out of Canadians?” Winnipeg teacher Brad Badiuk wrote on Facebook last month. “They have contributed NOTHING to the development of Canada. Just standing with their hand out. Get to work, tear the treaties and shut the FK up already. Why am I on the hook for their cultural support?”

I suggest that if Canadians treat their own native populations that way, for those reasons, it will not be long before they treat the economic migrants who hop borders in order to take advantage of their generous welfare system, in the same manner.
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Old 08-14-2017, 12:18 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oric View Post
No it is not the same. American culture is unique with its "every man for himself", "own guns and be proud to use them" (=more personal violence in problem solving) attributes, Canada does not naturally possess the fissile materials + is a welfare state that will always ease the social tensions IMHO.
I disagree, Oric.

Look at the UK, with it's large multicultural population. The more recent immigrants, both legal and illegal, tend to not want to assimilate and integrate into the existing 'British culture'.

They want the social benefits*and* they demand that their cultural norms be accepted and have allowances made for them, regardless of how incompatible they are with 'Western' society.

It's causing an increase in crimes, especially violent and sexual crimes.

It's not improving life overall for those people who want to work and become a positive part of the society.

The UK has a large and generous social benefit system, much like Canada.

Already Canada is beginning to feel less than comfortable with 'economic migrants' coming over their southern border as they leave the US because they aren't legal immigrants, here.

So I think FB's point is solid and viable.

Also, like the UK, Canada has strict weapons laws and despite not having easy access to firearms, it has not been a deterrent to violent crimes.

A person inclined, determined to commit acts of violence regardless of the motivation, will always find a way to do so.
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Old 08-14-2017, 01:15 PM   #18
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Some of the marchers were shouting "Heil Trump"!! as they marched past spewing their racist garbage.

Flourbug, you sometimes sound as if you have blinders on when it comes to Democrats. You ignore that dirty tricks were exposed under Nixon, a Republican. The rot in the two parties is equal. The Republicans are not all white washed innocents, not by a long shot.
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Old 08-14-2017, 02:19 PM   #19
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Classic. Deflection and 'whatabouts'. We aren't talking about my country, we're talking about yours. You want to start a thread elsewhere about a Canada, go nuts. And I'll be one of the first to condemn violent radicalism by other groups that you mentioned, but I will not do it to deflect from the awkward subject at hand- in this case that a white nationalist took a page from the Daesh handbook and rammed his car into a crowd after marching in a fascist parade. This thread is about alt-right American fascism.

We have problems up here, but that is not the subject of the 'university of Virginia' thread. You don't like having a mirror turned on the disgusting and gangrenous rise of neo-fascism in your country since Trump's election? Too goddamned bad. Your feelings are not my problem. Unfortunately the rest of the western world is seeing our own fascists inspired and emboldened by the window-licking dregs of your society who cannot seem to realize that they lost this was seventy two years ago, and who persist in marching under enemy colours. Unfortunately these same scum are beginning to crawl out from under rocks here. America is an exporter of culture, and unfortunately for the rest of us, you are exporting shit that was supposed to be extincted a half century ago.

I don't care if it hurts your feelings that Americans are marching under nazi flags. I don't care if it hurts your feelings that people who have vocally supported Trump and his ilk are screaming 'blood and soil!' in torch-lit marches and targeting blacks with physical violence. I don't care if it hurts your feelings that the rest of the west is looking on America with disgust because of what you all unleashed in November. You are entitled to your own opinion, but you are not entitled to your own set of facts. America has a problem with a dangerous and violent right wing- just today one of the so-called 'three percenters' was arrested in Ohio trying to detonate a 1000lb bomb at a bank in an attack on the government. Yet another instance of far-right violent extremism. That is consistently the most dangerous thing for American security, backed by quite a lot of study from reputable academics at such institutes as the US Military Academy whose job it is to study radicalism and terror.

You don't like it? Too damned bad. Take your blinders off. Speak up against fascism, or choose complicity. Every American is approaching the point where they need to decide if they are with or against evil. And yeah, unfortunately I think it's going to be bloody, because evil in this case are the same types who stockpile guns and write raciallly motivated nationalist manifestos. You have a president who has to be berated by the entire political establishment to even take a clear stance against white nationalism in the wake of the weekend's events The way he lips off is more the style of a South American banana republic strongman, but unfortunately he is the President of the most powerful country in the world. He is letting fascists hold him up as someone who works for and speaks for them, exactly as a bunch of us called it at the time of the election.

Nazis have always been the enemy. They didn't stop being the enemy just because fascism lost the Second World War. Unfortunately people with attitudes like your are allowing it to grow again because you refuse to speak up. There is a lot of historical precedent for where this goes, and none of it is pretty.
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Old 08-14-2017, 03:04 PM   #20
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Of course I am aware, spinner. The whole point of embedding fake Nazis into conservative forums, Trump's pre-election rallies, and the dozens of protests erupting over the weekend was to make the association between "Trump" and "Nazi" in people's minds. These people are usually quickly exposed and kicked out.

Do you know what the Hegelian Dialectic is? It is the basis of Marxism. You want to do something the people would never allow in the current system. So you create a problem. The problem is then used as justification for creating a solution. The solution is the thing the people would never have allowed.



Were YOU aware that, according to the Southern Poverty Law Center, Jason Kessler, the organizer of the march, has only been a Nazi for a few months? "Kessler’s ideological pedigree before 2016 was less than pure and seem to point to involvement in the Occupy movement and past support for President Obama" and "Arrest records indicate that Kessler was convicted in 2005 for shoplifting, obstructing justice and for a string of failures to appear and register, in addition to numerous traffic violations and citations."

The original application for the march was submitted by Jason Kessler on behalf of "Unity and Security for America". The event was subsequently announced on Facebook by the "Traditionalist Workers Party".

This is not The Right. The Right is not a socialist workers movement.

Ok, now lets go back to the Hegelian Dialectic. Here is Frances Wang interviewing one of the counter protesters in Charlotte:

https://twitter.com/FrancesWangTV/st...73380336418816

The point I want you to notice is when the woman says the goal of the counter protesters is "to build a mass, militant, integrated, anti-racist, immigrant rights movement".

The majority of people in America do not want open borders. Trump was elected in large part based on his promise to stop the flow of illegal immigrants.

Trump, and his support base, is standing in the way of the globalists.

Globalists know no party. They are opportunists, latching on to whatever party or movement will give them power. Their goal is open borders and the destruction of nation-states through the crushing weight of welfare. What's in it for them? MONEY. Wealth. The transfer of your money to their pocket while chaos reigns.

Remember the Ukrainian coup? (It is still going on.) Kiev Ukrainians followed Stephan Bandera's Nazis, joining Hitler's SS during WWII. Hitler fought Stalin. Bandara's organization hates the Russian speaking peoples in Eastern Ukraine. John McCain, George Soros and Victoria Nuland took advantage of this situation but orchestrating the Kiev coup in Ukraine. They politically and financially supported the Nazis and ousted the duly elected President of the Ukraine, leading to Russia's involvement.

The Nazis in the Ukraine marched with tiki torches while chanting "Blood and Soil":


The Nazis in Charlottesville marched with tiki torches while chanting "Blood and Soil":


What a coincidence! Unless someone was PAYING for the torches, and busing in people, and leading the chants... someone who knew exactly how to rile up people to overthrow a duly elected government.

Globalists want open borders, which the people, through Trump, will not allow.

So they create a "problem" - they associate Trump, his supporters, and his policies, with White Supremacy.

Then they offer a solution - remove Trump from office, crush the New Right, generate prejudice against white people.

Americans will NOT remove Trump because he is an impediment to open borders, but they WILL turn against him if he is a Nazi.

You will not find Trump supporters giving the Nazi salute or wearing swastikas. Trump's slogan is NOT Make America White Again. It is Make America Great Again - and that means stepping back from globalism, limiting government, and prioritizing the rights and needs of each and every individual in America. Trump supporters are NEW Right not ALT Right. If you attend his rallies or participate in forums you will find some Republicans, but there's a great deal of hatred for Ryan, McCain, McConnell and entrenched Republicrats who promote the globalist agenda. Trump supporters are classical liberals or libertarians, with a very large percentage former Bernie Bros and Dems who were upset over the corruption within their party. They are not all white. There are many black, hispanic, and asian Trump supporters, and they are not shy about announcing their ethnicity because Trump and his supporters are not racist.

None of that matters.

When you want a facial tissue, do you ask for a Kleenex? Kleenex is a brand name for facial tissue. There are others - Puffs, Scotts, a bunch of generic brands, but when you want a sheet of thin soft paper that comes out of a small cardboard box, you ask for a Kleenex. That's because an association has been established in your mind through repetitive marketing.

If globalists can make you believe Trump is a Nazi, then you will want Trump removed from office, and they have regained control of the government and can proceed with their agenda.
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Old 08-14-2017, 03:33 PM   #21
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I don't care if it hurts your feelings that the rest of the west is looking on America with disgust because of what you all unleashed in November. ... Unfortunately people with attitudes like your are allowing it to grow again because you refuse to speak up.
My, my. Sound and fury! Signifying the usual, unfortunately, but it is well-written, and fun to read, so, thanks, Brihard.

Screeds like this are nothing new. They have been coming out of organizations like Southern Poverty Law Center for years, and always the same message: the radical right is coming, bigotry and violence and gun owning craziness, run in circles, scream and shout!

Meanwhile, the reality on the ground is that the KKK, the ultimate crazy white hate group, is a small group of bitter old men drinking cheap bourbon. The neo-Nazis and skinheads and Stormfront d-bags couldn’t organize a good lynch mob to save their souls (and if they tried, they’re so infiltrated with FBI informants that they’d last about half an hour). There’s more violence on one bad weekend in Chicago than the “radical right” can dream of in a decade.

How many marchers in Charlottesville? Meanwhile, millions marched around with hats on their heads that looked like genitalia, tens of thousands “occupied” Wall Street, dozens of real radicals preach Sharia law and death to white people and destruction of the present order to big crowds every day, and . . . not a peep from much of anyone. Black on white crime is 12 times as frequent as the reverse, blacks make up 12% of the population and 52% of homicides, but white racism is the real problem, right?

Et cetera. Ad nauseum. Brihard is right, the discussion is centered on the mote in America’s eye and not the log in Canada’s, but the discussion itself is ridiculous. Charlottesville is an aberration so isolated and so minor as to be unworthy of a footnote, but it is in the interest of some to try to pretend it is the whole book, as fb explains. They are sophisticated, they are well-funded (George Soros has a LOT of money), they are blessed with a plethora of fellow-travelers, but they are ultimately stymied by those most stubborn of things: facts.
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Old 08-14-2017, 03:52 PM   #22
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If the globalists are waging a war on Trump, they are also waging a war on Putin, Iran, Mondi, Merkel and Erdogan who are Nationalist and anti-globalists (Just watch John Oliver and spot his favorite beat dolls - he is the true face of global pwers controlling the media). If we are going to turn the discussions in TBM to this perspective, I am more than willing because seems to be the most fitting scenario of the global affairs. Thus, Iran is not your enemy, Putin is not a bad guy in intentions and Erdogan is not the feared Islamists as he is. Britain (The Throne) are still holding the power and organising the political movements of Rothschild's and other unnamed globalist barons.

So are we discussing here or at another thread ?
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Old 08-14-2017, 04:10 PM   #23
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Classic. Deflection and 'whatabouts'. We aren't talking about my country, we're talking about yours.
We were talking about a clash between a Nazi group that was started by an Occupy America and Obama supporter, and Antifa, a group that uses violence to stifle free speech and assembly.

Neither of those groups has anything to do with Donald Trump, but you did not hesitate to blame him for the situation.

Fascists do not allow free speech. They do not allow marches by groups that stand in opposition to our government, like BLM, and La Raza, and Antifa, and Nazis, which, as despicable as they may be, are allowed by our Supreme Court under the First Amendment. Speech we agree with does not need protection.

Fascists are dictatorial. They decide, by the Heckler's Veto, who may and may not visit our universities, and oust university Presidents for disagreeing with them. They fire employees for stating the fact that few women choose STEM careers.

Fascists control language, co-opting common words, redefining terms, and they even tell us that we can't address a male with the word "him" or call a female, "her".

I quote sources. I don't take headlines at face value. I do my homework.

I have lived in America for over seven decades and can trace my ancestry back to the Pilgrims. If you are not American and have never resided in America, you do not get to tell ME what Americans think, or how we are, with any type of authority whatsoever.

So long as you can spout your misguided opinions and blatant prejudice on TBM, I am pretty sure I'm the one standing against fascism.
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Old 08-14-2017, 09:47 PM   #24
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Uh huh, so all the white nationalists and neo-Nazis are basically an Occupy astroturf. Got it. I'm sure it is convenient for you to believe that, but whatever the background may or may not be of any one individual involved in a leadership role - and frankly I seriously doubt the accuracy of your claims about the rally organizer, they sound like counter propaganda - the fact is that there was a mob of neo-Nazis literally marching under swastikas. Men walking around with Hitler quotes on their shirts. One such neo-Nazi who identified a target crowd and drove his car into it. These same groups of people have been lauding and venerating Trump's ascent, and have clearly been emboldened by it. People who prior to November wouldn't have dared crawl out from under their rock and don their hoods in public have done so.

Fascism in America today - the neo-Nazis, the Make America White Again crowd - do not at this juncture have the ability to prevent others from speaking, but if they could control speech to that extent they would. As it stands they are fortunately still such a minority, and don't have that power. Somewhat ironically, they would ultimately be stifled in same by the same constitutional rights that lets them pipe up in the first place. Fair enough, that's how she goes in a free society. Nonetheless, they are inciters of hate and inciters of violence.

Again, I will not engage in 'whatabout' here. Start a post elsewhere about Antifa and about BLM and we'll go for it, and you will likely find you and I of a largely same mind. I have not forgotten Dallas or other events that lay at their feet. I despise extremism of all colours, but I will not accept deflection from justified criticism of one end of the spectrum to shrill appeals to emotion over the crimes of the other. Antifa and BLM did not drive a car into a group of people. They are not trying to deny the very humanity of an entire ethnic group in America. They are not marching under the banners, literally, or those who perpetrated the holocaust. In this discussion, in this thread, I'm speaking about those who did and are.

I do not consider Trump the cause, per se, of what we see happening, but he is without a shred of doubt a potent catalyst. He is at the same time an inevitable result of the rise of America's far right, and an instigator for same. Most of the far right, most of the racists, are not so crass and stupid as to actually don their robes and brandish their shields and swastikas. If the far right were such a conveniently infantile group of casting call rejects for American History X, this would be far easier. But the skinheads, the white sheet wearing cowards, the idiots with shields and tiki torches, are just the visible fever of the disease.

The real danger is from those purveyors of honey-in-the-ears, those who will latch on to dissatisfaction over economic disenfranchise in the mainstream right wing working or welfare poor, and then make it about people of colour, or foreigners. For every one who just comes right out and calls Obama a 'monkey' or 'ape', there are ten more who shroud racism in a more pleasant candy coating, trying to mask their hate as (typically poorly researched and articulated) policy objections. Not at all to suggest that only racism motivated distaste fro your last presidency- far from it, and I believe that most who opposed your last president were not racist. Merely that there has been a massive, somewhat suppressed racist undercurrent in America that has been allowed off leash since the populism of Trump's rise.

Trump though, whether he likes it or not, has a leadership role in America that on this subject he has been gravely delinquent in. It took a concerted roar by both side of the mainstream political spectrum for him to do the easiest thing in the world- denounce fascism and white nationalism as anathema to what America stands for. Anyone possessed of a shred of sense and decency could and should have winged that speech the moment they could get in front of a camera. Denouncing nazis in the streets was, I thought, a no brainer, but he proved wrong. Some, like Cruz, have done a much better job of speaking up and saying 'This is not us and we renounce it'. Ironically, your president, and many others among the American right, have failed to do what they have been screaming about insisting mainstream Muslims do- denounce violent radicalism in their midst. Funny, that. From her eon in, anyone who is a mainstream Conservative who doesn't say 'Alex James Fields does not represent what we believe' doesn't get to say shit about 'where are the mainstream Muslims whenever there's an Islamist attack?'

I will wear my 'blatant prejudice' against Nazis and white supremacists proudly. Ancestors of mine landed in Europe bearing arms to fight and kill those people, and would be spinning in their graves to see those flags on the streets of America. I may not be or have lived in America, but I am literate, I listen, and I observe. I am not a physicist or a biologist, but I can watch an apple fall from a tree due to gravity, and then rot on the ground. Of late I have seen a lot of apples falling in America from trees that should have been long ago cut down, and they are visibly rotting- loudly and clearly, for any who will open their ears and eyes. Your country has a dangerous problem with radical and violent political extremism, and it's getting worse. A couple days ago a 32 year old woman marching against white nationalism lost her life over it, and more will do so. The people marching on America's streets under these banners deny the very basic humanity of huge groups of people - basically anyone who's not white Christian. Unacceptable. They have the legal protection from the state to peddle their shite, but that does not mean they get to do so comfortably, that they get to do so unchallenged, or that they are entitled to a bully pulpit. Unfortunately they will not simply go away if ignored. I, among many others, will speak up against them, and I don't care who I piss off while doing so. They are the enemy of good and free people and must be treated as such.
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Old 08-14-2017, 10:19 PM   #25
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I, among many others, will speak up against them, and I don't care who I piss off while doing so.
Nobody. You're pissing nobody off. The Nazis have no community support. There is no constituency for racism and hate. All the brave souls I see on Facebook standing up to voice their rage and disgust are doing so in spite of persecution from . . . nobody. No secret police will visit. No bricks will be thrown through windows. No crosses burned.

No guts required. Shocking, eh?

Do you know about Skokie? It was a big deal, 40 years ago. Here's a précis.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/o...310-story.html

There were 300 people in the crowd in Skokie. 40 years later, the skinheads and Nazis and white supremacists got together and the crowd had swollen to . . . 200. That's right. 40 years of David Duke and the boys doing their damnedest, and they couldn't even match the crowd from way back then.

There is no fascist wave about to engulf us all. That's just fatuous foolishness, and in their hearts, all the stalwart souls speaking out against it know that, and know that the consequences for their courage will be precisely zero. Talk tough, with no risk? Chime in with all my buddies who think precisely the same way, while trumpeting our toughness and non-confrormity? Yeah, sign us up!

You know who the really brave souls were, way back when? The ones who stood up for the First Amendment. Who are the brave ones now, do you think?
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